Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) GOATS OFFERED ON THE FESTIVALS

(a) Question: What is R. Shimon's source that goats of the festivals atone for (Tum'ah of the Mikdash or Kodshim) that was not known at the beginning nor at the end?
(b) Answer: He learns as R. Chama b'Rebbi Chanina taught.

1. (R. Chama b'Rebbi Chanina): By the goat of festivals it says "U'S'ir" - the extra 'Vov' equates it to the previous matter (the goat of Rosh Chodesh).
2. Just as the goat of Rosh Chodesh atones for a matter of Kodshim, also the goats of the festivals.

(c) Suggestion: Perhaps they should atone for the same thing as the goat of Rosh Chodesh!
(d) Rejection: By the goat of Rosh Chodesh it says "Osah" - only the goat bears this sin.
(e) Suggestion: Perhaps they should atone for the same thing as the outer goat of Yom Kipur!
(f) Rejection: "Achas b'Shanah" - we learn that the atonement of the outer goat only comes once a year.
(g) Question: The Chata'im it atones for - what knowledge was there?

1. If he knew at the beginning and at the end - he must bring a sacrifice!
2. If he knew at the beginning but not at the end - the inner goat and Yom Kipur suspend punishment for this!
3. If he knew at the end but not at the beginning - the outer goat and Yom Kipur atone for this!

(h) Answer: We must say, he did not know at the beginning nor at the end.

(a) (Mishnah): R. Meir says, all the goats (of Rosh Chodesh, the festivals and Yom Kipur) atone for the same things (a Tamei person who entered the Mikdash or ate Kodshim, or a Tahor person who ate Tamei Kodshim)
(b) Question (R. Chama b'Rebbi Chanina): What is R. Meir's reason?
(c) Answer #1 (R. Chama): By goats of the festivals it says "U'S'ir" - the extra 'Vov' equates the law to the previous matter.

1. We are thinking that each is learned from the previous one.
2. Question: R. Yochanan taught, a general rule of expounding is that a matter learned from something else can teach about something else, in all areas of Torah except Kodshim!
3. Answer: Rather, everything is learned from one source (e.g. each festival is learned from Rosh Chodesh,...)

(d) Objection: By Shavu'os and Yom Kipur it says "Se'ir", not 'U'S'ir' - how can we learn these?
(e) Answer #2 (R. Yonah): Rather, "Eleh Ta'asu la'Shem b'Mo'adeichem" - this equates all the Mo'adim.
(f) Question: But Rosh Chodesh is not a Mo'ed!
(g) Answer: Indeed, a verse calls it Mo'ed!

1. (Abaye): "Kara Alai Mo'ed" - Tamuz (when the Meraglim toured Eretz Yisrael) was a full month of 30 days, causing that they returned before the eve of the ninth of Av.

(h) (R. Yochanan): R. Meir admits that the inner goat of Yom Kipur does not atone for what these goats atone for, and vice-versa.

1. The inner goat of Yom Kipur does not atone for what the others do - "V'Chiper...Achas", it makes only one atonement;
2. The others do not atone for what the inner goat atones for - "Achas b'Shanah" - the atonement of the inner goat only comes once a year.

(i) Support (Beraisa - R. Meir): The goats of Rosh Chodesh, the festivals and the outer goat of Yom Kipur atone for a Tamei person who entered the Mikdash or ate Kodshim if he did not know at the beginning (whether or not he later found out), and for a Tahor person who ate Tamei Kodshim;

1. The Beraisa omits the inner goat, and what it atones for (if he knew at the beginning but not at the end).

(a) (Mishnah - R. Shimon): The goat of Rosh Chodesh atones for a Tahor person who ate Tamei Kodshim...
(b) We understand why it does not atone for what the goats of the festivals atone for - "Avon (singular)" - the goat only bears one sin, not two.
(c) Question: Why don't the goats of the festivals atone for what the goat of Rosh Chodesh atones for!
(d) Answer: By the goat of Rosh Chodesh it says "Osah (it)" - only the goat bears this sin.
(e) We understand why the goats of the festivals do not atone for what the outer goat of Yom Kipur atones for - "Achas b'Shanah" - the atonement only comes once a year.
(f) Question: Why doesn't the outer goat atone for what the goats of the festivals do?
(g) Answer: "V'Chiper...Achas", it makes only one atonement.
(h) Question: That verse is written by the inner goat!
(i) Answer: "Milvad Chatas ha'Kipurim" - this equates the inner and outer goats.

(j) (R. Shimon ben Yehudah citing R. Shimon): (The goats of Rosh Chodesh atone for a Tahor person who ate Tamei Kodshim; the goats of the festivals atone for this, and also for Tum'ah (of the Mikdash or Kodshim) which was never known; the outer goat atones for both of these, and also for Tum'ah which only known at the end.)
(k) Question: Presumably, he learns that the goat of Rosh Chodesh does not make the atonement of the goats of the festivals from "Avon" - the goat only bears one sin, not two;

1. He should likewise say that the goats of the festivals do not atone for what the goat of Rosh Chodesh atones for - "Osah" - only the goat bears this sin!

(l) Answer: He does not expound "Osah" thusly.
(m) Question: Presumably, he learns that the goats of the festivals do not make the atonement of the outer goat from "Achas b'Shanah" - the atonement only comes once a year.

1. He should likewise say that the outer goat does not atone for what the goats of the festivals do - "V'Chiper...Achas", it makes only one atonement!

(n) Answer #1: He does not expound "V'Chiper...Achas" thusly.
(o) Question: Presumably, this is because that verse is written by the inner goat;

1. Also "Achas b'Shanah" is written by the inner goat, yet he applies it to the outer goat!

(p) Answer: Really, he expounds "V'Chiper...Achas";

1. Since it says "V'Chiper...Al Karnosav Achas", this teaches that the atonement on its (the inner Altar's) corners only makes one atonement, but the atonement on the outer Altar makes more than one atonement.

(a) (Ula): Unblemished lambs for the Tamid (daily offering) that were not used by Nisan (and now communal sacrifices must be bought from Shekalim of the new year) may be redeemed.
(b) Question (Rav Chisda): Did the Kedushah vanish (that they can be redeemed unblemished)?!

1. Counter-question (Rabah): How can you argue - a Mishnah teaches this!

i. (Mishnah): Extra incense (that was not used by Nisan), we redeem it on money owed to those who made it, we give it to the workers, and buy it back from the new Shekalim.

2. Answer (Rav Chisda): Incense only has monetary Kedushah, therefore its Kedushah vanishes.