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Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Menachos 108
MENACHOS 108 (28 Teves) - sponsored by Reb Uri Sondhelm, to honor the
fifty-first Yahrzeit of his father, Reb Asher ben Uri Shraga Sondhelm Z"L.
May Reb Asher's grandson Menachem merit, in the Zechus of his grandfather
and his other righteous ancestors, to build a Bayis Ne'eman b'Yisrael with
his newly engaged Kalah, Naomi Stimler of London, England!
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1) COINS FOR EXTRA "KORBANOS"
(a) The others did not answer like Chizkiyah - we are not
concerned for fighting;
(b) The others did not answer like R. Yochanan - we are not
concerned for rotting;
(c) They did not answer like Ze'iri - they did not want to
establish the Mishnah like an individual;
(d) They did not answer like Bar Pada - it is unreasonable to
have a separate box for Mosar, since all of these are
Mosar;
1. Also, it is unreasonable to have a separate box for
Kalbonos, since they are given with the (half)
Shekalim.
2. (Beraisa - R. Meir): The Kalbonos are put with the
(half) Shekalim;
3. R. Eliezer says, they go for Nedavah.
(e) Answer #5 (Shmuel): They correspond to six Mosaros - of
Chatas, Asham, Asham Nazir, Asham Metzora, Minchas Chotei
and Chavitei Kohen Gadol.
(f) Answer #6 (R. Oshaya): They correspond to Mosar of
Chatas, Asham, Asham Nazir, Asham Metzora, Kinim and
Minchas Chotei.
(g) Shmuel (and the other Amora'im) did not answer like R.
Oshaya, for the Reisha already lists Kinim (among seven
other boxes.)
(h) Question: Did R. Oshaya's text of the Reisha exclude
Kinim?!
1. Indeed, his text included Kinim in the Reisha!
(i) Answer: The Reisha teaches Kinim, the Seifa teaches Mosar
Kinim.
(j) R. Oshaya did not answer like Shmuel because he holds
like the opinion that Mosar Chavitim must rot:
1. (Beraisa): Mosar Minchas Nedavah, Mosar Minchah must
rot.
2. Question: What does this mean?
3. Answer #1 (Rav Chisda): It means, Mosar Minchas
Chotei goes to Nedavah (like Mosar Chatas), Mosar
Chavitim must rot.
4. Objection (Rabah): Mosar Chavitim also goes to
Nedavah!
5. Answer #2 (Rabah): Rather, (Mosar Minchah refers to)
Mosar Lachmei Todah (, they) must rot.
(k) Other Amora'im also argue about this:
1. (R. Yochanan): Mosar Chavitim go to Nedavah;
2. (R. Elazar): They must rot.
(l) Question (Mishnah): Extra (money that people designated
for their half-) Shekalim are (is) Chulin, Mosar Asiris
ha'Eifah, Mosar Kinim of a Zav, Zavah, or Yoledes, Mosar
Chatas and Asham are Nedavah.
1. Suggestion: Asiris ha'Eifah refers to Chavitim
(which are an Isaron!)
(m) Answer: No, it refers to Minchas Chotei.
(n) Support (for Rav Chisda - Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak -
Beraisa): "Lo Yasim Aleha Shemen v'Lo Yiten Aleha Levonah
Ki Chatas Hi";
1. (Rav Yehudah): Only Minchas Chotei is called Chatas
- this teaches that Mosar Chavitim is not called
Chatas, therefore it requires Levonah, and its Mosar
must rot.
2) THE REPLACEMENT FOR A BLEMISHED "KORBAN"
(a) (Mishnah): If Reuven said 'This bull is an Olah' and it
became blemished, if he wants he may buy two bulls (to be
Olos) with its (redemption) money;
1. If he said 'These two bulls are Olos' and they
became blemished, he may buy one bull (with the
money);
2. Rebbi forbids this.
(b) If he said 'This ram is an Olah' and it became blemished,
he may buy a lamb;
1. If he said 'This lamb is an Olah' and it became
blemished, he may buy a ram;
2. Rebbi forbids this.
108b---------------------------------------108b
(c) (Gemara) Question (The previous Mishnah): If one vowed to
bring a bull for a Maneh and he brought two bulls for a
Maneh, he was not Yotzei.
(d) Answer: Here is different, (he is Yotzei, for he is less
obligated to replace the Korban for two reasons -) he
said 'This' (a Nedavah without Acharayos, not a vow), and
it got a Mum.
(e) (Mishnah): If he said 'These two bulls are Olos' and they
became blemished, he may buy one bull; Rebbi forbids
this.
(f) Question: Why does Rebbi forbid?
(g) Answer: (Because it is better to bring two animals than
one animal of their combined value,) this is like
bringing a small (inferior) animal in place of a big one;
1. Even though it got a Mum, Rebbi forbids.
(h) Question: (Rebbi forbids bringing a big animal in place
of a small one -) he should also forbid in the first
clause (bringing two bulls in place of one!)
(i) Answer: Indeed, this is true! He waited until Chachamim
finished their teaching, then he argued with both laws.
(j) Support (Seifa): If he said 'This ram is an Olah' and it
became blemished, he may buy a lamb;
1. If he said 'This lamb is an Olah' and it became
blemished, he may buy a ram;
2. Rebbi forbids this (even though a ram is bigger and
better than a lamb!)
(k) Question: May one buy a different species than the
original Korban?
(l) Answer (Beraisa): If one said 'This bull is an Olah' and
it became blemished, he may not buy a ram with its money
(for it is smaller and inferior), but he may buy two
rams;
1. Rebbi forbids because Ein Bilah (the Menachos for
the two rams may not be mixed together, it does not
resemble his initial Korban, which required only one
Minchah.)
2. (All agree that one may buy a different species as
long as it is not inferior and its Minchah requires
the same number of Kelim, e.g. a bull in place of a
ram.)
(m) Question: If so, Chachamim should permit buying even one
ram, for (in the Mishnah) they permit buying a smaller
replacement (e.g. a lamb in place of a ram!)
(n) Answer: Tana'im argue about the opinion of Chachamim (the
Tana of the Beraisa says that they forbid buying a
smaller replacement.)
(o) (Beraisa - Rebbi): It is forbidden because Ein Bilah.
(p) Inference: If not for Ein Bilah, it would be permitted.
(q) Question (Mishnah): If he said 'This ram is an Olah' and
it became blemished, he may buy a lamb; 'This lamb is an
Olah'...he may buy a ram;
1. Rebbi forbids this.
2. Even though Bilah is not a problem (in any case one
Minchah is brought), Rebbi requires bringing a
replacement just like the blemished animal!
(r) Answer: Tana'im argue about the opinion of Rebbi (the
Tana of the Beraisa says that he permits as long as the
replacement is not inferior and its Minchah requires the
same number of Kelim.)
3) THE REPLACEMENT FOR A "KORBAN"
(a) (Continuation of Beraisa): If the animal is unblemished,
if he brought a bull in place of a calf, or a ram in
place of a lamb, he was Yotzei.
(b) This is like Chachamim (107B, who permit a better
replacement.)
(c) (Mishnah): ...If he wants he may buy with its money...
(d) Version #1 (Rav Menasiya bar Zevid): This is only if he
said 'This bull is an Olah', but if he said 'This bull is
Alai an Olah', it is fixed (he must bring one animal.)
(e) Objection: Perhaps he means, 'It is incumbent on me to
bring it for an Olah'!
(f) Correction: Surely, he must have taught the following:
(g) Version #2 (Rav Menasiya bar Zevid): This is only if he
said 'This bull is an Olah', or 'This bull is Alai an
Olah', but if he said 'This bull and its money are Alai
an Olah', it is fixed.
4) AN UNSPECIFIED "KORBAN"
(a) (Mishnah): If Reuven said 'One of my lambs (or bulls) is
a Korban':
1. If he has two, the larger one is a Korban;
2. If he has three, the medium one is a Korban (this
will be explained.)
(b) If he specified which will be the Korban and does not
remember which, or if his father told him that he
specified a Korban but did not tell him which, the
biggest is a Korban.
(c) (Gemara) Inference: (The first clause teaches that)
people are Makdish b'Ayin Yafah (generously.)
(d) Contradiction (The second clause): If he has three, the
medium one is a Korban - this shows that people are
Makdish b'Ayin Ra'ah (stingily)!
(e) Resolution (Shmuel): The second clause means, we are
concerned *even* for the medium one, with respect to the
smallest it is Ayin Yafah (but we offer only one of
them.)
(f) Question: (Since each is Safek Hekdesh,) how do we offer
only one?
(g) Answer (R. Chiya bar Rav): We wait for the medium to get
a Mum, it is then redeemed onto the biggest (if the
biggest was truly the Korban, no redemption is
necessary.)
(h) (R. Gershom requires him to say 'it is redeemed onto the
biggest'. Ri Korkus explains Rambam to say that the
redemption occurs automatically; he also says that the
biggest (even if it gets a Mum) cannot be redeemed onto
the medium, for the Kedushah applies primarily to it.
Tosfos Yom Tov says that in this case, the biggest is
redeemed onto the medium and onto additional money (to
make up the difference in value).)
(i) (Rav Nachman): This is only if he said 'One of my bulls
(is a Korban)' - but if he said 'A bull of my bulls',
only the biggest is a Korban, for he means 'the most
important.'
(j) Question: But Rav Huna taught, if one said 'I sell to you
a house of my houses', he shows (can give) to him (an)
Aliyah;
1. Suggestion: (This refers to an attic,) it is
inferior!
(k) Answer #1: No, 'Aliyah' means 'Me'ulah' (best) of his
houses.
(l) Question (Beraisa): If one said 'A bull of my bulls is
Hekdesh', and similarly if a Hekdesh bull became mixed
with Chulin bulls, the biggest is a Korban, the rest are
sold to people who need to bring Olos, the money is
Chulin.
(m) Answer: 'The rest are sold for Olos' only refers to the
mixture (but when one says 'A bull of my bulls is
Hekdesh', all but the biggest are Chulin.)
(n) Question: But it says 'and similarly' (implying that the
same law applies to both!)
(o) Answer: 'Similarly' refers to the biggest being a Korban,
this applies to both cases.
(p) Question (Beraisa): If one said 'I sell to you a house of
my houses' (or, 'a slave of my slaves'), and one of them
fell (died), he can say, that is the one I sold.
1. According to Rav Nachman, he cannot say this unless
the best fell or died!
(q) Answer: The case of a buyer is different, a buyer has the
lower hand.
(r) Answer #2 (to Question (j)): This very answer is another
answer to Question (j).
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