Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) IS SALT "ME'AKEV"?

(a) Question (Rav Huna): The Torah did not repeat salt, yet it is Me'akev!

1. (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): "Bris Melach Olam" - there is a covenant with salt.
2. R. Shimon says, it says "Bris Melach Olam", and it says "Bris Kehunas Olam" - just like Korbanos require Kehunah, they require salt.

(b) Answer #1 (Rav Yosef): Rav holds like our Tana, who is Machshir a Korban without salt.
(c) Question (Abaye): If so, we should similarly Machshir if Yetzikah was not done at all (but we did not explain the Mishnah (18A) thusly!)

1. Rather, (the Mishnah is Machshir when) a Kohen did not do Yetzikah, rather, a Yisrael did.
2. Similarly, (it is Machshir when) a Kohen did not salt, rather, a Yisrael did.

(d) Answer (Rav Yosef): A Yisrael may not approach the Mizbe'ach to salt (therefore, we must say that it was not salted at all.)
(e) Answer #2 (to Question (a)): Since it says "Bris", it is as if it was repeated.
(f) Question: Salt is repeated - "V'Chol Korban Minchascha ba'Melach Timlach"!
(g) Answer: That is needed for the following teaching:

1. (Beraisa): Had it said 'Korban ba'Melach', one might have thought even wood and blood must be salted, for they are called Korban;

i. Therefore, it says 'Minchas' - just like Minchah requires other things (it must be burned on wood), all Korbanos that require other things must be salted.

2. Suggestion: Perhaps we include things that permit, like Minchah - this would include blood!
3. Rejection: "Me'Al Minchasecha" - not on blood.
4. Suggestion: Perhaps all of the Minchah must be salted!
5. Rejection: "Korban" - only the part that is a Korban (Huktar) must be salted.
6. Question: This only teaches that the Kometz must be salted - what is the source for Levonah?
7. Answer: We include Levonah, for it is in the Kli with the Minchah.
8. Question: What is the source for the following?

i. Levonah brought by itself, or in Bazichim (brought with Lechem ha'Panim), Ketores, Minchas Kohanim, Chavitiei Kohen Gadol, Minchas Nesachim;
ii. Eimurim of Chatas, Asham and other Kodshei Kodoshim, and of Kodshim Kalim, Ivrei Olah and Olas ha'Of.

9. Answer: "Al Kol Korbancha Takriv Melach".

(a) Question: The Beraisa said that we include Levonah for it is in the Kli with the Minchah - but we already included Korbanos that require other things!
(b) Answer: The Beraisa suggested, perhaps we should expound "Korban...Minchah" according to Klal and Prat - from Klal and Prat we only include the Prat, i.e. Minchah;

1. Since there is another Klal, "Korbancha", we expound Klal, Prat and Klal, and include everything similar to the Prat, i.e. Korbanos that require other things;
2. Just like Minchah requires wood (to burn the Kometz), we include all Korbanos that require wood.

(c) Question: Why don't we say, just like Minchah requires Levonah (to accompany it), we include blood, which is accompanied by Nesachim (of wine)!
(d) Answer #1: Nesachim are considered an accompaniment for Eimurim, not for blood.

1. Question: What is the reason?
2. Answer: (The Torah uses the word 'Achilah' regarding the Mizbe'ach -) eating and drinking go together.
3. Objection: Rather, we should say that wine accompanies the blood - after Kaparah (Zerikah), there is joy!

(e) Answer #2: Nesachim are unlike Levonah - Levonah is in the Kli with the Minchah, Nesachim are not in the Kli with the blood;

1. However, all Korbanos (that are burned) require wood in the same way.

(f) Question: Why don't we include everything similar to the Prat, i.e. Korbanos that require other things *and* permit?

1. This would include only Levonah brought in Bazichim, which permits Lechem ha'Panim!

(g) Answer: It says "Me'Al Minchasecha" to exclude blood - otherwise, we would have included it, i.e. we include Korbanos that require other things, even if they do not permit.
(h) Question (Beraisa): "Me'Al Minchasecha" excludes blood;

1. Why don't we use this to exclude limbs?

(i) Answer: It is more reasonable to include limbs, for they resemble Minchah in the following ways (the Siman to remember them is AShBaN TaMEi):

1. They require Acherim (other things), they are burned on the ESh (fire), they are offered exclusively B'Chutz (outside the Heichal), Nosar, Tamei and Me'ilah apply to them (Tosfos - the Gemara omitted the last similarity, they are also Ochel (food).)

(j) Question: It is more reasonable to include blood, for it permits and is Nifsal at sundown, like Minchah!
(k) Answer: There are more similarities to limbs.
(l) (Beraisa): Had it said 'Korban ba'Melach', one might have thought even wood and blood must be salted, for they are called Korban.
(m) Question: Our Tana is Rebbi, who says that wood is called Korban - Rebbi requires salt!

1. (Beraisa): "Korban" - this teaches that one may bring a Nedavah of wood.

i. One must bring at least two large branches - "Veha'Goralos Hipalnu Al Korban ha'Etzim".

2. Rebbi says, wood is considered a Korban Minchah, it requires Kemitzah.
3. (Rav Papa): According to Rebbi, a Nedavah of wood requires (must be burned on) other wood.

(n) Answer: We must delete 'wood' from the text of the Beraisa.