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Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Kidushin 78
KIDUSHIN 77-80 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi
publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.
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1) LASHES FOR PROFANING
(a) (Rav Yehudah): A Kohen Gadol that has relations with a
widow - he gets 2 sets of lashes, for "He will not take"
and "He will not profane".
(b) Question: He should also be lashed for "He will not
profane his seed"!
(c) Answer: The case is, he did not complete the marital act
("He will not profane his seed" only applies by relations
capable of making a woman pregnant).
(d) Question (Rava - Beraisa): (A Kohen Gadol had relations
with) a widow that is a divorcee - he is lashed for each
of these prohibitions.
1. Suggestion: This means, once for each of these
prohibitions.
(e) Answer: No, he gets 2 sets of lashes for each (for "He
will not take" and "He will not profane")
(f) Question (end of the Beraisa): (For relations with) a
divorcee that is a Chalutzah - he is only lashed once.
(g) Answer: It means, he is only lashed for one of those
prohibitions - but he gets 2 sets for it.
(h) Question: May we infer from here that the prohibition of
a Chalutzah is only mi'Derabanan?
1. (Beraisa): "And a woman divorced from her husband (a
Kohen may not take)" - this includes a Chalutzah.
(i) That is only an Asmachta mi'Derabanan.
(j) (Abaye): If a Kohen was Mekadesh a woman forbidden to
Kohanim - he is lashed once for "He will not take";
1. If he had relations with her - he is lashed once for
"He will not profane".
(k) (Rava): He is only lashed if he has relations with her;
1. "He will not take...he will not profane" - taking is
only forbidden so he will not profane.
(l) Abaye admits by one who remarries his divorcee that he is
not lashed for Kidushin without relations - "To take her
to be as a wife" is only fulfilled through relations.
(m) Rava admits by a Kohen Gadol that has relations with a
widow that he is lashed, even without Kidushin - "He will
not profane his seed among his nation" - relations alone
profane.
(n) Both agree that one who remarries his divorcee that he is
not lashed for relations without Kidushin - the Torah
only forbade her through marriage.
2) CHILDREN OF CONVERTS
(a) (Mishnah - R. Yehudah): The daughter of a male convert is
as the daughter of a Chalal.
(b) (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): The daughter of a male convert is
as the daughter of a Chalal - a Kal v'Chomer teaches
this.
1. A Chalal was fathered by a Yisrael, yet a Chalal's
daughter is disqualified (from Kehunah) - a convert
was fathered by a Nochri, all the more so his
daughter is disqualified!
(c) Question: We cannot learn from a Chalal, for he was
conceived through sin!
(d) Answer #1: We see from a Kohen Gadol that has relations
with a widow, his daughter is disqualified, even though
the Kohen Gadol was not conceived in sin (i.e. this is
not the determining factor).
1. Question: We cannot learn from a Kohen Gadol's
daughter (from a widow), he transgressed by having
relations with the widow!
2. Answer: We see from a Chalal (his daughter is
disqualified, even though his wife is permitted to
him) that this is not the determining factor.
3. (Summation): Chalal and Kohen Gadol each have
different problems. The commonality between them is
that they are different from the congregation (a
transgression was involved in their formation or
relations), and their daughters are disqualified;
i. Also a convert is different from the
congregation (he was fathered by a Nochri), his
daughter is disqualified!
4. Rejection: We cannot learn from a Chalal and a Kohen
Gadol - a transgression was involved in each of
them!
(e) Answer #2: Rather, a first-generation Mitzri shows that
being formed through sin is not the determining factor
(his daughter is forbidden).
(f) Question: We cannot learn from a (first-generation)
Mitzri, for he is forbidden to marry a Bas Yisrael!
(g) Answer: We see from a Chalal (his daughter is
disqualified, even though he is permitted to a Bas
Yisrael) that this is not the determining factor.
1. (Summation): Chalal and a Mitzri each have different
problems. The commonality between them is that they
are different from the congregation (1 was formed
through sin, 1 cannot marry a Bas Yisrael), and
their daughters are disqualified;
i. Also a convert is different from the
congregation (he was fathered by a Nochri), his
daughter is disqualified!
2. Rejection: We cannot learn from a Chalal and a
Mitzri - both of them disqualify a woman (from
Kehunah) by having relations with her!
3. Answer: Indeed, R. Yehudah learns that a convert
also disqualifies a woman by having relations with
her, from this Kal v'Chomer!
(h) (Mishnah): R. Eliezer ben Yakov says, a convert...
(i) (Beraisa - R. Shimon bar Yochai): A girl that converted
before 3 years old, she is permitted to Kehunah - "Keep
all the young girls (of Midyan, after defeating them in
war) alive for yourselves (they are permitted to you)" -
and Pinchas was among the men;
1. Chachamim say, you may keep them alive - as slaves.
(j) The different opinions among the Tana'im were learned
from the verse "They will not marry a widow or divorcee,
rather virgins from the seed of Yisrael".
1. R. Yehudah learns, all the (primary seed, i.e. the
father) must be from Yisrael;
2. R. Eliezer ben Yakov expounds, "From the seed of
Yisrael" - it suffices if 1 parent is a Yisrael;
3. R. Yosi holds, she must be seeded in Yisrael (her
parents are Yisraelim);
4. R. Shimon bar Yochai holds, she must be a Yisraelis
when her (signs of) virginity sprout (at the age of
3).
3) DIFFICULT VERSES IN YECHEZKEIL
(a) Question (Rav Nachman): The beginning of the verse speaks
of a Kohen Gadol, the end speaks of a regular Kohen!
78b---------------------------------------78b
(b) Answer (Rava): Yes!
(c) Question (Rav Nachman): Do verses change like that?
(d) Answer (Rava): Yes - "The lamp of Hash-m did not yet go
out, and Shmuel was lying down in the Heichal".
1. Question: But only kings from the line of David may
sit in the Mikdash!
2. Answer: Rather, the verse means, the lamp of Hash-m
did not yet go out in the Heichal, and Shmuel was
lying down (elsewhere).
(e) Question: "A widow that will be a widow from a Kohen they
(may) marry" - but not a widow of a Yisrael?!
(f) Answer #1: It means, from (only some of) the Kohanim
(i.e. all but the Kohen Gadol), they may marry a widow.
(g) Answer #2 (R. Yehudah): Kohanim may marry widows of men
whose daughters are permitted to Kohanim.
1. This fits R. Yehudah's opinion that the daughter of
a male convert is (forbidden to Kehunah) as the
daughter of a Chalal;
2. A Kohen may marry Reuven's widow only if he may
marry Reuven's daughter.
4) CHILDREN OF CONVERTS
(a) (Mishnah): R. Yosi says, even a convert that married a
convert (his daughter is permitted to Kehunah).
(b) (Rav Hamnuna): The law is as R. Yosi.
(c) (Rabah bar bar Chanah): The law is as R. Yosi - but after
the destruction of the Mikdash, Kohanim conduct
stringently as R. Eliezer ben Yakov.
(d) (Rav Nachman): If a Kohen asks - we tell him the law is
as R. Eliezer ben Yakov; if he married the daughter of
converts, he may stay married, as R. Yosi.
5) THE FATHER IS BELIEVED ABOUT HIS CHILDREN
(a) (Mishnah): Reuven said 'My son Shimon is a Mamzer' - he
is not believed;
(b) Even if Reuven and his wife say that she is pregnant with
a Mamzer, they are not believed;
1. R. Yehudah says, they are believed.
(c) (Gemara) Question: Why does it say 'Even if they both
say'?
(d) Answer: This teaches a bigger Chidush: not only if he
says - for he is not sure if she is pregnant from him -
but even if she also says (and she is sure), they are not
believed;
1. Further - not only when the child has a Chazakah of
being Kosher (i.e. they did not say he is a Mamzer
until after he was born), but even by a fetus, which
has no Chazakah, they are not believed.
(e) (Mishnah): R. Yehudah says, they are believed.
(f) (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): "He will recognize" - he will
inform others - this teaches that a man is believed to
say 'This is my firstborn son'.
1. Just as a man is believed to say 'This is my
firstborn son', he is believed to say 'This son was
born to a divorcee or Chalutzah';
2. Chachamim say, he is not believed.
(g) Question (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): We see how R.
Yehudah expounds "He will recognize" - what do Chachamim
learn from it?
(h) Answer (Rava): When we do not know who is the firstborn,
the father is believed.
(i) Question: For what is he believed - to inherit a double
portion? Even without a verse, since the father could
give his son an extra portion as a gift, he is believed
to say that he inherits a double portion!
(j) Answer: This would not suffice to give the son an extra
share in property that subsequently comes to the father.
(k) Question: R. Meir holds, a man can transfer ownership of
something not yet in the world (such as property he will
later receive) - the father could give an extra share of
all property he will receive, why must the Torah believe
him about the firstborn?
(l) Answer: Such a gift would not help for property that
falls to the father when the father is Goses (dying, and
unable to give a gift).
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