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1) WHAT DOES THE FATHER CLAIM?

(a) Chachamim say, the father demands payment for embarrassment and blemish.
(b) (Rav Papa): R. Shimon holds, a person claims a fixed payment rather than a payment which must be assessed.

1. Chachamim say that a person claims something which must be paid in all cases, and not a fine which the defendant is exempt from when he admits.

(a) Question (R. Avina): A girl that is fed by her brothers (after the father died) - who receives her earnings?

1. Perhaps the brothers are in place of the father - just as her earnings went to her father, so too to the brothers.
2. Or, the cases are not similar - the father chose to feed her, but a condition of her mother's Kesuvah dictates that the brothers feed her.

(b) Answer (Rav Sheshes - Mishnah): A widow is fed from the inheritance of the orphans; they receive her earnings.
(c) Objection: That case is different - a man is not concerned that his widow profit, but he does want this for his daughter!

1. Question: Do we really say that a man is more concerned for his daughter than his widow?

i. (R. Aba): The law of a widow and a daughter is like the law of a daughter and sons when the estate is meager.
ii. Just as the daughter is fed and the sons beg for food - also, the widow is fed and the daughter begs!

2. Answer: A man is more concerned for the disgrace of his widow than his daughter, but he is more concerned for the profit of his daughter than his widow.

(d) Question (Rav Yosef - Mishnah): The earnings or found object of a daughter, even if the father died before collecting them, go to the sons.

1. It seems, this is only said when they were earned in the father's life - after his death, she keeps her earnings!
2. Suggestion: The case is, she is being fed by the brothers.
3. Rejection: No, she is not being fed.
4. Question: If so, the law is obvious!

i. Even the opinion that says that one can force his slave to work for him without feeding him - this is only by a Kanani slave!
ii. By a Jewish slave, "He is with you (eats as well as you)" - all the more so, one may not make his daughter work for him without feeding her!

5. Answer (Rabah Bar Ula): We need the verse to teach that the sons inherit her earnings above the cost of feeding her.

(e) Question (Rava): Can it be, a sage as Rav Yosef did not anticipate this answer?!
(f) Answer (Rava): Rather, the Mishnah itself was difficult to him.

1. It is not appropriate to speak of a found object which was not yet collected!
2. Rather, the Mishnah equates her earnings and her found objects.

i. Just as her found objects, what is in the father's lifetime goes to the father, after his death, to herself; so too her earnings.

(g) (Rav): A daughter fed by the brothers keeps her earnings.
(h) (Rav Kahana): This is learned from "You will bequeath them to your sons" - you bequeath them (Kanani slaves) to your sons, but not privileges in your daughters.
(i) Question (Rabah): Perhaps the verse only talks of payments for enticement, fines and payments of injuries!

1. Support (Rav Chanina - Beraisa): The verse speaks of payments for enticement, fines and payments of injuries.

(j) Question: (She gets payments for) injuries, they come through her pain!
(k) Answer (R. Yosi Bar Chanina): For example, he bruised her face (the father receives the payment, since it decreases the money he can receive for her).

(l) (Rav): A daughter fed by the brothers keeps her earnings - "You will bequeath them to your sons" - but you do not bequeath privileges in your daughters to your sons.

1. Avimi Bar Papa: Shekod (Shmuel) said this.
2. Question: But Rav said this!
3. Correction: Rather, also Shekod said this.

(m) (Mar Bar Amemar): Nehardai say, the law is as Rav Sheshes.
(n) (Rav Ashi): The law is as Rav.

1. The law is as Rav.

(a) (Mishnah): A girl was engaged, divorced, engaged, widowed - her father gets the Kesuvah;
(b) She was married, divorced, married, widowed - she receives the Kesuvah; R. Yehudah says, he receives the first Kesuvah.

1. Chachamim: Once she is married, he has no jurisdiction over her.

(c) (Gemara): Specifically, she was divorced and widowed - but had she been widowed twice, she could not remarry!

1. The Mishnah is as Rebbi, who says that after being widowed twice, it is established that her husbands will die.

(d) (Mishnah): R. Yehudah says, the first Kesuvah goes to the father.
(e) Question: What is the reason for R. Yehudah?
(f) Version #1 - Answer (Rabah): The father merits the Kesuvah from the time of engagement.

1. Question (Rava - Beraisa): R. Yehudah admits, if she was engaged, became a Bogeres and went to Chupah, the father has no jurisdiction over her.
2. We do not say, the father merited the Kesuvah from the time of engagement!

(g) Version #2 - Answer (Rabah): He merits it, since it was written when she was in his jurisdiction.

(a) Question: From when can she collect (the Kesuvah from property the husband sold)?
(b) Answer #1 (Rav Huna): 100 or 200 (the basic Kesuvah for a non-virgin or virgin) from the time of engagement; any addition to this, from the time of Chupah.
(c) Answer #2 (Rav Asi): The entire amount is collected from the time of Chupah.
(d) Question: Rav Huna contradicts his own teaching!

1. (Rav Huna): A (divorced or widowed) woman is holding 2 Kesuvos, 1 for 200, 1 for 300. She may collect 200 from the earlier date, or 300 from the later date.
2. According to Rav Huna's answer above, she should collect 200 from the earlier date, and 100 from the later date!

(e) Counter-question: Why not say she collects 500, 200 from the earlier date, 300 from the later date!
(f) You must say, since he did not write, 'I am adding 300 to your 200', he intends that she may collect 200 from the earlier date, or 300 from the later date.