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1) WHO RECEIVES THE PAYMENTS

(a) (Mishnah): Her labor and objects she finds, even though she did not collect them, if the father dies, they belong to the brothers.
(b) (Gemara) Question: We already learned this!

1. (Mishnah): An enticer pays 3 things, a rapist 4; an enticer pays embarrassment, blemish and fine; a rapist also pays for pain.

(c) Answer #1: Our Mishnah teaches that the payments go to the father.
(d) Question: This is obvious, from the fact that there are payments by an enticer!

1. If the payments are to her, why does he pay - she consented!

(e) Answer #2: Our Mishnah teaches the dispute of R. Shimon and Chachamim when the father dies after the trial.

(a) (Mishnah): Claimant: You raped or enticed my daughter!

1. Defendant: I didn't!
2. Claimant: I impose an oath on you!
3. Defendant: Amen (I accept the oath).

(b) Later, the defendant admits that he swore falsely. He must bring a sacrifice (for a false oath in which he denied owing money);
(c) R. Shimon says he is exempt, since one does not pay a fine on his own admission.

1. Chachamim: Even though he does not pay a fine on his own admission, he does pay embarrassment and blemish on his own admission.

(d) Question (Abaye): Claimant: You raped or enticed my daughter; I took you to trial, and you were obligated to pay!

1. Defendant: That is all false!
2. Claimant: I impose an oath on you!
3. Defendant: Amen.
4. According to R. Shimon, must he bring a sacrifice?

i. Since there already was a trial, we view it as a regular monetary payment (and he brings a sacrifice);
ii. Or, do we still view it as a fine (and he is exempt)?

(e) Answer (Rabah): It is as money.
(f) Question (Abaye - Beraisa): Claimant: You raped or enticed my daughter; or, your ox killed my slave;

1. Defendant: That is false!
2. (A slave accuses his master): You knocked out my tooth or blinded my eye!
3. Master: I didn't!
4. The defendant swore falsely. R. Shimon says, we might have thought he must bring a sacrifice - "In a deposit, loan or theft ..." - the sacrifice is only brought when a monetary payment is denied, not for a fine.

5. Suggestion: The case was already brought to trial.

(g) Answer (Rabah): No, it was not.
(h) Question: In the beginning of the Beraisa, the case already went to trial - presumably, in the end as well!

1. (Beginning of the Beraisa): One would only know (that one brings a sacrifice for a false oath on) things for which one pays the principle.
2. The double, 4 and 5-fold payments of a thief, a rapist or enticer, Motzi Shem Ra are learned from the repetition "Transgresses a transgression".
3. Question: What is the case?
4. Suggestion: If there was not yet a trial - there is no obligation for a double payment!
5. Clearly, the case went to trial. It must be, also in the end of the Beraisa, the case went to trial.

(i) Answer (Rabah): I could say that the whole Beraisa is R. Shimon, the beginning is after trial, the end is before trial - but I don't want to give you a poor answer.

1. If I did, you would ask, 'R. Shimon says' should appear at the beginning or end (and not in the middle).

(j) Rather, I answer that the entire Beraisa is after trial; the beginning is Chachamim, the end is R. Shimon; and I admit that R. Shimon exempts from the sacrifice because of the verse "In a deposit ...".

1. I said that it is considered a monetary payment regarding that the father bequeaths it to his sons.

(k) Question (Mishnah - R. Shimon): If she did not collect until the father died, she keeps the payments!

1. If it is as money to bequeath to the sons - her brothers should get the money!

(a) Rava: This was difficult to Rabah and Rav Yosef for 22 years. It was only answered when Rav Yosef became head of the Yeshivah.
(b) (Rav Yosef): The fine of a rapist is different, since the Torah said "*v'Nasan* (He will give) to the father" - it is not considered the father's until it is given.

1. Rabah only said it is as money regarding that the sons inherit it by other fines.

(c) Question #1: Regarding a slave killed by an animal, it says "*Yiten* (he will give)" - will we also say, the master only merits it after it is paid?
(d) Answer: We only learn from the language *v'Nasan*, not from *Yiten*.
(e) Question #2: Why does the Beraisa say we learns from v'Kichesh - it should say, we learn from v'Nasan!
(f) Answer (Rava): v'Kichesh is needed in the case that after the trial, she became a Bogeres and died, and the father inherits the fine from her.
(g) Question: Why does the Beraisa say, 'to exclude these cases which are fines - this is money!
(h) Answer (Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak): It means, to exclude these cases which were originally fines.
(i) Question (Beraisa): R. Shimon exempts (from the sacrifice) since he does not pay on his own admission.

1. This only applies before the trial - after the trial, when he does pay on his admission, he would bring a sacrifice!

(j) Answer: R. Shimon addresses the Chachamim on their terms.
(k) R. Shimon: I hold that even after the trial, the Torah exempted him from *v'Kichesh* - you should admit to me, before the trial, the claim is only a fine, and one who admits to a fine is exempt (hence no sacrifice should be brought).