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1) QUESTIONS ABOUT MEASUREMENTS

(a) (R. Papa) Do we calculate the Koseves with or without its seed?
(b) (R. Ashi) Do we calculate a Se'orah (an Etzem for Tumas Mes) with or without its shell?
(c) Also, are we speaking of a moist or dry Se'orah?
(d) R. Ashi relies on HaGasah to address the question of R. Papa.
(e) R. Papa relies on the word Se'orah as opposed to Oshlah (which is a Se'orah without its shell) and as opposed to Shiboles (which is moist Se'orah) to address R. Ashi's questions.

(a) (Rabah citing R. Yehudah) The Koseves HaGasah (of our Mishnah) is larger than a Beitzah.

1. Chazal understood that a Koseves is the minimum amount required for one to feel satisfied.
2. The violation of Yom Kipur occurs when one loses the Inui of not eating, not when one actually eats (which would be a KeZayis).

(b) Question: From the incident in the Mishnah in Sukah we see that *two* Kosavos are *less* than a KeBeitzah, such that it seems unlikely that *one*, even plump, Koseves with its pit could be *larger* than a KeBeitzah!?

1. Food was brought on Sukos to R. Yochanan b. Zakai and two Kosavos and a pitcher of water were brought to R. Gamliel.
2. In both instances, the Tana instructed them to bring the food to the Sukah.
3. The Beraisa reports that this was not required, but was their Chumrah.
4. When R. Tzadok was given less than a KeBeitzah of bread he allowed three leniencies (including eating it outside the Sukah) but if it was a KeBeitzah, it would require a Sukah.
5. Thus it seems that the two Kosavos brought to R. Gamliel were smaller than a KeBeitzah!

(c) Answer (R. Yirmiyah): Indeed, two Kosavos without their pits are less than a KeBeitzah, while one plump Koseves with its pit is larger (the volume of the pit is greater than the meat, as R. Papa reported the common knowledge that the pits comprise a bit more than 50% of the bushel).
(d) Answer (Rava): Actually two Kosavos are larger than a KeBeitzah, but fruit never requires Sukah, and that is why they need not have brought it into the Sukah.
(e) Question: But we learned in the Beraisa that any Achilas Keva requires Sukah!?

1. Rebbi reported that when learning under R. Elazar b. Shamua they were brought figs and grapes and they ate them Achilas Arai outside of the Sukah.
2. We may infer from this that Achilas Keva (even of the fruit) would have necessitated the Sukah!

(f) Answer: Rebbi meant that we ate even a large amount in an Arai fashion outside of the Sukah.
(g) Alternate Answer: There was a large quantity of fruit and we ate bread outside of the Sukah Achilas Arai, as well.
(h) The Beraisa seems to support Rava's assertion:

1. The 14 meals of Sukos may be filled in with Targima (dessert).
2. If fruit could fill in, then the Beraisa should have mentioned fruit (thus indicating that fruit does not require Sukah).

(i) No, the word Targima could also mean fruit dessert!
(j) Alternately, the Beraisa was speaking in a place where fruits were not common, and thus used a dessert which does not imply fruit, with no intent to exclude fruit.

(a) (R. Zvid) The Koseves HaGasah of our Mishnah is smaller than a KeBeitzah.
(b) This is supported by the manner in which the position of Beis Shamai is taught in the Mishnah in Beitzah:

1. Beis Shamai say that the Shiur Chiyuv of Seor is KeZayis and of Chametz is KaKoseves.
2. Their source for differentiating is the fact that the Torah writes the Isur by Seor, as well, even though it could logically be derived from Chametz (since Seor is a more potent form of Chametz) as similarly being a KeZayis.
3. Now if a KaKoseves were larger than a KeBeitzah, then Beis Shamai, when looking for a larger Shiur for KeZayis, would have first come upon KeBeitzah.
4. Even if they (Kosves and Beitzah) were the same size, KeBeitzah is far more familiar and would have been used!
5. We may thus infer that a KaKoseves is smaller than a KeBeitzah.

(c) Question: Perhaps a standard Koseves is, indeed, smaller than a KeBeitzah, but a Koseves *HaGasah* is larger!?
(d) Answer (still R. Zvid): Rather, my proof is from the Mishnah in Berachos where a *KeBeitzah* is listed as satisfying.

1. For Zimun the participants need to have eaten a KeZayis according to R. Meir and a KeBeitzah according to R. Yehudah.
2. R. Yehudah holds that the Pasuk teaches that for Birkas HaMazon the food must fulfil VeSava'ta, which is a KeBeitzah.
3. If a KeBeitzah is satisfying, surely it is enough to remove the sense of Inui required for the prohibition on Yom Kipur!?
4. Thus we see that a Koseves HaGasah must be smaller than a KeBeitzah.

(e) To summarize, KeBeitzah satisfies (for the purposes of Birkas HaMazon) while a KaKoseves settles the mind of the eater, invoking the prohibition on Yom Kipur.