Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) THE SUKAH ON THE EIGHTH DAY IN CHUTZ LA'ARETZ (cont'd)

(a) (R. Yosef) Bear R. Yochanan in mind given the incident in which the great Rabbis ate in the Sukah on Shemini Atzeres but did not recite a Berachah.

1. Question: But maybe they held that one does not recite a Berachah on any day past the first!?
2. Answer: We have a tradition that they had not yet fulfilled the Mitzvah of Sukah.

(b) Alternate rendition of the above discussion:

1. They argue over residing in the Sukah (only residing there if it is viewed as the seventh day and not the eighth in all regards) while all agree that one does not recite a Berachah.
2. (R. Yosef) Bear R. Yochanan in mind (don't sit in the Sukah at all) since the one who cited Rav's position (R. Yehudah b.R. Shmuel b. Shilas) himself ate outside the Sukah on the eighth.

(c) The Halachah is to eat in the Sukah but not to recite the Berachah.

(a) (R. Yochanan) One recites Shehechiyanu on Shemini Atzeres, but not on the last day of Pesach.
(b) (R. Levi b. Chama) This is evidenced by the fact that three items of Sukos (Sukah, Lulav and Nisuch HaMayim) or, according to R. Yehudah, two items, do not appear on Shemini Atzeres.

1. Question: Then the absence of Matzah on the seventh day should generate a Shehechiyanu there!?
2. Answer (first): Only the night differs by Pesach!
3. Answer (Ravina): Shemini Atzeres differs from the day preceding, unlike Pesach.
4. Answer (R. Papa): Shemini Atzeres is distinguished in the Torah because of one Par (versus Parim).
5. Answer (R. Nachman b. Yitzhok): The word BaYom singles out Shemini Atzeres (versus Uv'Yom).
6. Answer (R. Ashi): KaMishpat (versus k'Mishpatam).

(c) Question: Shall we see R. Yehudah (in the following Beraisa) as a support for R. Yochanan?

1. (Tana Kama) The designated number of all Korbanos of Sukos are Me'akev.
2. (R. Yehudah) The Parim, whose numbers descend, are not Me'akev.
3. Question: But they all (including the Eilim and Kevasim) descend into Shemini Atzeres!?
4. Answer (R. Yehudah): Shemini Atzeres is a separate Regel given that it has its unique Korban, Shir, Berachah and Linah compared to the days of Sukos.

5. Presumably, its Berachah refers to Shehechiyanu!

(d) Answer: No, that refers to the unique reference to the day in Tefilah, not to Shehechiyanu.

1. It is further unlikely that R. Yehudah was referring to Shehechiyanu since there is no Shehechiyanu on the seven days of Sukos as implied by R. Yehudah's comparison.
2. That may still refer to Shehechiyanu and he is speaking of reciting the Berachah all seven days if it were not said previously.
3. Question: But there could not be such an obligation given that people do not ordinarily have the required cup of wine to recited Shehechiyanu!?
4. Answer: Perhaps he does not need a cup of wine, and this supports R. Nachman in his assertion!
5. No, it could be that there is no obligation unless he happens upon a cup of wine.

(a) Question: How could R. Yehudah have required Linah on Shemini Atzeres given his teaching regarding the exclusions of Linah!?

1. (R. Yehudah) Pesach Sheni does not require Linah.
2. It is excluded by the proximity of the obligation of Linah to the words Sheshes Yamim.
3. This teaches that the days which have a six day follow-up (as in Pesach where Matzah is eaten for the subsequent six days) have Linah.
4. Question: This would appear to exclude Shemini Atzeres!

(b) Answer: No, it excludes Pesach Sheni, which is other- wise similar to Pesach Rishon where these Pesukim appear.
(c) This is supported by the Mishnah which teaches that Bikurim require Korban, Shir, Tenufah and Linah.

1. Question: Who said that it is R. Yehudah who teaches that Bikurim require Tenufah?
2. Answer: We learn it from the Beraisa.

i. R. Yehudah says that v'Hinicho refers to Tenufah.
ii. It cannot mean actual Hanachah since the Pasuk already said v'Hinachto.

3. Question: Perhaps the Mishnah is R. Eliezer b. Yakov (who also holds that Bikurim require Tenufah) and we cannot establish that R. Yehudah is the author of the above Mishnah and requires Linah!?

i. R. Eliezer b. Yakov learns that Bikurim require Tenufah from v'Lakach HaKohen
ii. His source is Yad-Yad.
iii. The resulting procedure is described.

(d) Question: What is the Halachah regarding Shehechiyanu on Shemini Atzeres?
(e) Answer (R. Nachman): We recite Shehechiyanu.
(f) Answer (R. Sheshes): We do not recite Zman.
(g) l'Halachah, we recite it.
(h) A Beraisa supports R. Nachman, which calls Shemini Atzeres a separate Regel in regards the six areas of PZ"R KS"B (Payis, Zman, Regel [Sukah], Korban, Shira and Berachah).