Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) IMMODEST BEHAVIOR

(a) Rejection #2: Shmuel can hold even as R. Yoshiyah.

1. Since R. Yoshiyah needed a verse to teach that a Shomeres Yavam drinks, this implies that she is not as a full wife.

(b) Question: A wife that Overes Al Das (deviates from the modest ways of a Bas Yisrael) - does she forfeit her Kesuvah even if she was not warned?

1. Perhaps since she acted immodestly, no warning is needed.
2. Or, perhaps we must warn her - maybe she will correct her behavior.

(c) Answer #1 (Mishnah): An engaged wife or a Shomeres Yavam does not drink and does not get a Kesuvah.

1. We infer - but they may be warned.
2. Question: What does the warning accomplish?

i. Suggestion: That if she is secluded, she forfeits her Kesuvah. (Implying, she does not forfeit her Kesuvah for immodest behavior unless she was warned.)

(d) Rejection #1 (Abaye): No - the warning causes that seclusion will forbid her to her husband.
(e) Rejection #2 (Rav Papa): The warning is in order to make her drink after Nisu'in.

1. (Beraisa): One cannot warn his engaged wife to make her drink during engagement, but he can warn her to make her drink after Nisu'in.

(f) Answer #2 (Rava - Mishnah): A widow married to a Kohen Gadol, a divorcee or Chalutzah married to a regular Kohen, a Mamzeres or Nesinah married to a Yisrael, or a Bas Yisrael married to a Mamzer or Nesin - she neither drinks nor receives a Kesuvah;

1. We infer - but they may be warned.
2. Question: What does the warning accomplish?

i. One cannot say, that seclusion will forbid her to her husband - she is already forbidden!

3. Answer: Rather, if she is secluded, she forfeits her Kesuvah.

(g) Rejection (Rav Yehudah of Diskarta): No - the warning causes that seclusion will (permanently) forbid her to the suspected adulterer.

1. (Mishnah): Just as a Sotah is forbidden to her husband, also to the suspected adulterer.

(h) Answer #3 (R. Chanina of Sura - Mishnah): Beis Din can warn the wife of a man that became deaf, or insane, or was imprisoned;

1. She may not drink; she is warned, so that if she is secluded, she forfeits her Kesuvah.

i. This teaches that she does not forfeit her Kesuvah without warning.

(i) Question: Why didn't the other Amoraim resolve the question from our Mishnah?
(j) Answer: One could distinguish - the wife of a deaf, insane, or imprisoned man does not fear her husband, so we are not as quick to punish her for immodesty.
(k) Question: May a husband remain married to a wife that is Overes Al Das?

1. Is it left to the husband to decide if he minds?
2. Or, since most men object to immodest behavior, it is not his choice.

(l) Answer (Mishnah): Beis Din can warn the wife of a man that became deaf, or insane, or was imprisoned.

1. If the husband is allowed to remained married to her, Beis Din would not warn her, lest she become forbidden, and the husband might not want this!

(m) Rejection: Really, he may remain married to her, but we may assume that he would not want to remain married to a wife that is Overes Al Das.

(a) Question: A husband that warned his wife - can he cancel the warning?

1. If warning depends on what bothers the husband - he is no longer adamant!
2. Or, since he initially warned her, he cannot retract.

(b) Answer #1 (Mishnah): Beis Din can warn the wife of a man that became deaf, or insane, or was imprisoned.

1. If a husband could cancel a warning, Beis Din would not warn her, lest he cancel it (which would be a disgrace to Beis Din)!

(c) Rejection: Really, a husband can cancel a warning; we are not concerned that he will cancel it, for a person usually agrees with decisions of Beis Din.
(d) Answer #2 (Mishnah): 2 Chachamim are sent to accompany the Sotah and her husband to Yerushalayim, lest he have relations with her on the way.

1. If the husband can cancel his warning - there is no need for Chachamim, he can cancel the warning and have relations!

(e) Rejection: This is the purpose of Chachamim, to tell him that he should cancel the warning before he has relations!
(f) Answer #3 (R. Yoshiyah, citing Chachamim of Yerushalayim): A husband can pardon his warning; Beis Din can pardon a rebellious Chacham; parents can pardon a rebellious son;

1. (Chachamim of the south): A husband and parents can pardon, but not Beis Din, so disputes should not increase in Yisrael.

i. We learn that a husband can pardon his warning.

(g) (1 of Rav Acha and Ravina): Pardon only works before seclusion.
(h) (The other of Rav Acha and Ravina): Pardon works even after seclusion.
(i) Support ((For the former opinion) Beraisa - R. Yehudah): A Kal va'Chomer shows that the husband is trusted.

1. Nidah is Chaivei Krisus, and the husband is trusted to be secluded with his wife when she is Nidah - Sotah is only a Lav, all the more so he is trusted to be alone with her!
2. Chachamim: You cannot learn from Nidah, for she will become permitted to him again - a Sotah might not become permitted to her husband again!

i. If pardon works after seclusion - a Sotah also can become permitted again, he can pardon the warning!
ii. Rather, it must be that pardon does not work after seclusion.

(a) (Mishnah): If her husband died before she drank - Beis Shamai ...
(b) Question: What is the source of the argument?
(c) Answer: Beis Shamai hold, a document (in our case, the Kesuvah) standing to be collected is considered as already collected; Beis Hillel say, it is not considered as already collected.

(d) (Mishnah): One who marries a woman pregnant from another man ...
(e) (Rav Nachman): They only argue by a sterile woman, or one too old to have children - but all agree that an Ailonis does not drink and does not get her Kesuvah;

1. "(If) she is vindicated, she will bear seed" - she only drinks if she is fitting to bear seed.

(f) Question (Beraisa (the question is from the end of this long Beraisa)): A man that warns his engaged wife or Shomeres Yavam - if she was secluded before he fully married her, she does not drink and does not get her Kesuvaha