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Pesachim 61

61b

QUESTION: Rabah and Rav Chisda argue concerning a case where one slaughtered the Korban Pesach for circumcised people, who are fit to eat the Korban, but on condition that the Zerikah be done for Arelim (uncircumcised people, who are unfit to eat the Korban). RASHI (DH Shechato) says that it makes not difference whether the Arelim are Menuyin (appointed to eat from this Korban) or are not Menuyin (not appointed to eat from this Korban).

What does Rashi mean? If the Arelim are not appointed to eat from this Korban, then there is a different problem besides the Machshavah of intending to do the Zerikah for Arelim -- there is the problem of having a Machshavah to do the Zerikah for people who are *not the owners* of this Korban (Shinuy Ba'alim), and even Raba would agree that the Korban is invalidated (61a, Rashi DH Aval and DH k'Mi sh'Ein)! This cannot be the subject of the Machlokes between Rabah and Rav Chisda? (TOSFOS 61a, DH Shechato)

ANSWER: The DEVAR SHMUEL answers that the Pesul of Shinuy Ba'alim does *not* apply in this case, because the Arelim for whom the Korban was slaughtered are not not people for whom the Korban could be brought in the first place ("Bnei Kaparah"). The Gemara (62a, and Rashi on 61a DH v'Eino b'Tzibur) tells us that the Pesul of Shinuy Ba'alim only applies if one thought to bring the Korban for another people for whom the Korban *can be brought*, but if one brings the Korban for a person for whom the Korban cannot be brought in the first place. Rav Ashi, cited by the Gemara later on (62a and RASHI DH b'Hai Kra), in fact concludes that this is the true reasoning of the argument between Rabah and Rav Chisda whether the Korban Pesach is kosher if it is slaughtered in order to perform its Zerikah for Arelim.

This answer explains the words of Rashi here, but the Devar Shmuel points out that it raises another question. Why does Rashi mention the conclusion of the Gemara at this point? The Gemara introduces that principle later because it rejects the first way of explaining the argument between Rabah and Rav Chisda. At this stage in the Gemara, though, why should we be told that Rabah and Rav Chisda also argue over a case of Zerikah for Arelim who are not appointed to eat from this Korban? (The Devar Shmuel leaves this question unanswered.)

The answer may be that when Rav Ashi introduces his new understanding of the argument between Rabah and Rav Chisda, he does not prelude it with the words "Ela *Hacha b'Mai Askinan*," which would show that the Gemara is changing the circumstances of the case over which Rabah and Rav Chisda argue. It must be that we are not introducing new circumstances for the case; we knew all along that they were discussing a case of Zerikah for Arelim which are not appointed to eat from this Korban. All along, the argument involved the case of Arelim who are not appointed to eat from this Korban, but at the earlier stage of the Gemara it was thought that the argument applies *also* to Arelim who are appointed to eat from this Korban. (M. Kornfeld)

QUESTION: The Gemara says that thinking a Machshavah to perform *Zerikah* for Arelim is less of a reason to invalidate the Korban than thinking the same Machshavah during the performance of the *Shechitah*. Why is that? The Gemara says that it is because "Ein Machshavas Ochlin Posel b'Zerikah" -- having a Machshavah that the Avodah is being done for someone who is unfit to eat the Korban does not invalidate the Korban when it is thought during Zerikah.

What sort of explanation is this? This is circular reasoning! The Gemara asked why having a Machshavah during Zerikah for Arelim -- people who are unfit to eat the Korban -- does not invalidate the Korban, and it answers because having a Machshavah to do Zerikah for people who are unfit to eat the Korban does not invalidate the Korban! Besides, the general rule that "Ein Machshavas Ochlin Posel b'Zerikah" is derived from a *different* verse ("Tachusu Al ha'Seh" - Gemara 61a, Rashi 61b DH Ho'il), and not from the verse "Zos," cited by the Gemara here as the source that a Machshavah to perform *Zerikah* for Arelim does not invalidate the Korban.

ANSWERS:

(a) TOSFOS (61a, DH Shechato) seems to understand the Gemara as follows. It is true that having Machshavah for Arelim and having Machshavah for those who are unfit to eat the Korban (she'Lo l'Ochlav) are identical (see also Tosfos 61a DH l'Ochlav, 62a DH Mai Shena). However, there is a difference between doing the *Shechitah with intention to do the Zerikah* ("Shechitah Al Minas Lizrok") for either Arelim or she'Lo l'Ochlav, and performing the *actual Zerikah* for Arelim or she'Lo l'Ochlav. The Gemara is asking what logic there is to say that Shechitah with *intention to do Zerikah* for Arelim should not invalidate the Korban? Why is it less severe than intending to do the *Shechitah* itself for Arelim? To this the Gemara answers that we know that performing the actual Zerikah for Arelim does not invalidate the Korban, so even if one performs the Shechitah with *intention to do Zerikah* for Arelim there is reason to suggest it will not invalidate the Korban.

(b) RASHI (DH Mai Zos, Talmud Lomar, and v'Chi Teima) and the RAMBAM (Hil. Korban Pesach 2:6,7) seem to explain differently. Their opinion seems to be that Shechitah performed with the intention to do Zerikah for Arelim and performing the actual Zerikah for Arelim are equivalent. Only a thought that invalidates the Korban during Zerikah itself can invalidate the Korban if it is slaughtered with the intention to do Zerikah in a particular manner. (This seems abundantly clear from the Rambam in Hil. Pesulei ha'Mukdashim 15:11, as RABEINU CHAIM HA'LEVI points out in Hil. Korban Pesach 2:6, first entry.)

Rather, the Gemara means to differentiate between having Machshavah for Arelim and having Machshavah for *she'Lo l'Ochlav*. We know that a Machshavah of she'Lo l'Ochlav invalidates the Pesach from the verse, "l'Fi Ochlo," as the Gemara said earlier (61a). That Machshavah for Arelim invalidates the Korban is learned from a different verse -- "l'Chol Arel" (Gemara 61b, and Rashi 61b DH Mai Zos). The verse of she'Lo l'Ochlav specifies that the Pesul is only when the Machshavah is done during *Shechitah*, and not during the Zerikah (or during Shechitah Al Menas Lizrok). That is unquestionable. The question of the Gemara is what the Halachah will be concerning Machshavah for Arelim which is thought during Zerikah *or* during Shechitah Al Menas Lizrok. Is it the same as the Machshavah of she'Lo l'Ochlav, which does not invalidate the Korban unless it is thought during Shechitah, or is it different? The Gemara concludes (according to Rabah) that since Machshavah for she'Lo l'Ochlav cannot invalidate a Korban if it is thought during Zerikah, there is reason to suppose that even Machshavah for Arelim also will not invalidate the Korban when thought during Zerikah (or during Shechitah Al Menas Lizrok).