ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
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Nedarim 17
Questions
1)
(a) Our Mishnah states 'Yesh Neder be'Soch Neder - ve'Ein Shevu'ah be'Soch
Shevu'ah'.
(b) The Tana gives as an example of the former 'Hareini Nazir im Ochal,
Hareini Nazir im Ochal'. Despite the fact that the same would have applied
had he said 'Hareini Nazir, Hareini Nazir', the Tana did not state the more
simple case - because the case that he did state balances with that of
Shevu'ah, which can only appear as 'Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal, Shevu'ah she'Lo
Ochal'. Note, that this is also the answer given by the Gemara, according to
those who cite this Kashya in the text, as we shall see shortly.
(c) The ramifications of the statement 'Yesh Neder be'Soch Neder' are - that
the Noder practices one thirty-day period of Nezirus, brings the relevant
Korbanos and then practices a second period.
(d) The phrase means - that the second Nezirus is valid even as the first
one is being practiced (only it is not possible to practice two Nezirus
simultaneously). In fact, if that was not the case, then there is no way
that the second Nezirus could take effect after the termination of the first
one (seeing as he did not declare Nezirus then).
2)
(a) 'Yesh Neder be'Soch Neder' - cannot imply that if someone declared two
Nedarim on a certain food which he subsequently eats, he receives two sets
of Malkos, because never do we find two Malkos for one act that stems from
one Pasuk.
(b) The reason for the principle 'Ein Shevu'ah be'Soch Shevu'ah' is -
because having accepted the first Shevu'ah, he is already 'Mushba ve'Omed
me'Har Sinai'.
(c) We nevertheless say 'Yesh Neder be'Soch Neder' - because of the Pasuk
'Nazir Lehazir', as we shall see shortly.
3)
(a) According to some texts, we pose two Kashyos (on the example of 'Hareini
Nazir im Ochal, Hareini Nazir im Ochal'): One of them is why the Tana needs
to connect Nezirus to Achilah (which we already discussed in our Mishnah).
The second Kashya is - having connected them, why does the Tana need to
repeat the phrase? Based on the Sugya in Shevu'os, someone who eats a number
of k'Zeisim, is Chayav for each k'Zayis. Consequently, one would be Chayav
two (or more) Malkos, one for each k'Zayis that he ate (provided there is a
warning for each k'Zayis, as we shall now see) even without accepting a
second Nezirus.
(b) He would only receive two Malkos if there was a warning between the two
k'Zeisim - just like we find with a Chiyuv Korban or Malkos, which require a
specific break between each k'Zayis in order to receive a second Malkos.
4)
(a) According to Rav Huna, 'Yesh Neder be'Soch Neder' only pertains to a
case where he said 'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir le'Machar' - because
then, since the thirty-first day takes effect, the other twenty-nine days
follow automatically.
(b) We do not say that, seeing as it is only the last day of his second
Nezirus that is due to take effect, the Nezirus is Bateil - because of the
ruling in Maseches Nazir, that if someone undertakes to be a Nazir for one
day, he is obligated to keep a full thirty-day Nezirus.
(c) According to Shmuel - even if he says 'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini
Nazir ha'Yom', the second Nezirus will take effect after the termination of
the first.
5)
(a) According to Rav Huna, instead of continuing 'Ein Shevu'ah be'Soch
Shevu'ah', the Tana of our Mishnah could just as well have said 'Ein Neder
be'Soch Neder' (referring to when he accepted both periods of Nezirus to run
concurrently) - Rav Huna has no way of explaining the fact that the Tana
moved from Neder to Shevu'ah (unnecessarily) and we remain with a Kashya on
him?
(b) We might ask the same Kashya on Shmuel: that instead of continuing 'Ein
Shevu'ah be'Soch Shevu'ah', the Tana of our Mishnah could just as well have
said 'Ein Neder be'Soch Neder' - with reference to when the Noder said
'Konem Alai Kikar Zeh, Konem Alai Kikar Zeh', in which case, the second
Neder will not take effect (because it is only in the case of Nezirus, where
the two Nedarim become effective at different times, that we hold 'Yesh
Neder be'Soch Neder')?
(c) The reason that we do not ask on Shmuel is - because the Kashya on Rav
Huna is not why the Tana moves from Neder to Shevu'ah (as we thought it
was), but why the Tana states categorically 'Ein Neder be'Soch Neder'
(before differentiating between Nedarim and Shevu'os), leading us to believe
that there is no such thing as a Neder be'Soch Neder (even by Nezirus). And
that is a Kashya that one cannot ask on Shmuel, because by giving the only
example as the case of Nezirus, he has indicated that Konem is precluded
from the principle.
17b---------------------------------------17b
Questions
6)
(a) 'Yesh Neder be'Soch Neder' and 'Ein Shevu'ah be'Soch Shevu'ah' must of
course speak in equivalent cases. Assuming that 'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom,
Hareini Nazir le'Machar' is equivalent to 'Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Te'einim,
Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Anavim' - we initially believe the equivalent case of
'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir ha'Yom' to be 'Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal
Te'einim, Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Te'einim'.
(b) This poses a Kashya on Rav Huna - because our Mishnah cannot be the
former (since there is no reason why, in the case of 'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom,
Hareini Nazir le'Machar', the second Shevu'ah should not be effective).
Consequently, it must the latter 'Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Te'einim, Shevu'ah
she'Lo Ochal Te'einim'. Neder be'Soch Neder will then constitute 'Hareini
Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir ha'Yom', a Kashya on Rav Huna, who maintains
there 'Ein Neder be'Soch Neder.
(c) Rav Huna resolves this Kashya - by establishing the case of 'Ein
Shevu'ah be'Soch Shevu'ah' when he said 'Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Te'einim,
Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Te'einim va'Anavim', which he considers the equivalent
of 'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir le'Machar'.
(d) The basic difference between our initial interpretation of 'Ein Shevu'ah
be'Soch Shevu'ah', and that of Rav Huna is - that whereas the former
followed the Din (i.e. in the case of 'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir
le'Machar', the second Nezirus, which begins only after the termination of
the first, is totally independent of it, and is therefore similar to
'Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Te'einim, Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Anavim'), the latter
follows the Lashon (i.e. according to the Noder's words, the second term of
Nezirus begins already on the second day of the first term, so that they
intermingle, and is therefore similar to 'Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Te'einim,
Shevu'ah she'Lo Ochal Te'einim va'Anavim').
7)
(a) Rabah says that someone who swears first that he will not eat figs and
then that he will not eat figs and grapes, should he eat figs, separate a
Korban for having contravened the first Shevu'ah, and then eat grapes - he
is Patur from bringing a Korban for eating grapes, because it is a Chatzi
Shiur (he only contravened half of the second Neder).
(b) We can infer from there - that the second Neder is valid (because he
holds 'Shevu'ah Chal al Shevu'ah' [or 'Ein Shevu'ah be'Soch Shevu'ah'] with
a Kollel - since it is valid on the figs, it is also valid on the figs).
(c) Rav Huna holds 'Shevu'ah Chal al Shevu'ah' even with a Kollel.
8)
(a) The problem with the previous explanation in Rav Huna is that just as in
the case of 'Ein Shevu'ah be'Soch Shevu'ah', the second Shevu'ah cannot take
effect, due to the fact that he has already sworn on figs, so too, should
the second Nezirus not take effect during the first twenty-nine days, since
he has already accepted them in his first Nezirus. We resolve this problem -
by establishing the case of 'Te'einim va'Anavim' to mean figs and grapes
together (which were not included in the first Shevu'ah).
(b) Rabah now holds - that, since the Shevu'ah is valid with regard to the
grapes, it is also valid with regard to the figs (not because of 'Kolel').
(c) Rav Huna disagrees with Rabah - because, since the Shevu'ah cannot be
valid with regard to the figs, it is not valid with regard to the grapes
either (since he did not swear on the grapes by themselves).
(d) In fact, in the equivalent case ('Hareini Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir
le'Machar'), the Tana rules 'Yesh Neder be'Soch Neder'. If not for the time
factor, we would say there too 'Ein Neder be'Soch Neder' - because, just as
in the case of the figs and the grapes, the Noder intended twenty-nine of
the days of both sets of Nezirus to run concurrently (because we go after
the Lashon, as we explained earlier).
9)
(a) The Beraisa says that someone who, after declaring two sets of Nezirus,
counted the first one, separated his Korban and then had the first Neder
annulled - has fulfilled his second Neder with the first one (meaning that
he is Patur from keeping the second Neder).
(b) We think that the Tana must be speaking when he undertook to keep the
two sets of Nezirus concurrently - because otherwise, why would he have
fulfilled the (entire) second set when he annuls the first?
(c) This Beraisa poses a problem on Rav Huna, in spite of Rava, who will
teach us later that, despite the principle 'Ein Shevu'ah Chal al Shevu'ah',
the moment he has the first Shevu'ah annulled, the second one takes effect
immediately - because we do not yet know about Rava's Chidush.
10)
(a) In answer to the previous Kashya on Rav Huna, we establish the Beraisa
when he said 'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir le'Machar', and Rav Huna
will explain the statement 'Alsah Lo Sh'niyah ba'Rishonah' (which bothered
us earlier) - with reference to the first twenty-nine days only (leaving him
obligated to fulfill the thirtieth).
(b) Alternatively, the Tana speaks when he said neither 'Hareini Nazir
ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir le'Machar' nor 'Hareini Nazir ha'Yom, Hareini Nazir
ha'Yom' - but when he accepted the two sets of Nezirus simultaneously
('Harei Alai Sh'nei Neziros').
(c) In this last case, both sets of Nezirus would take effect
simultaneously - because there is no reason for one of them to take effect
before the other.
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