POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Menachos 23
MENACHOS 23 (3 Cheshvan) - dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Malka bas Menashe (and
Chana), Mollie Krause, in honor of her third Yahrzeit, by her daughter Gitle
Bekelnitzky. Under both material and spiritual duress, she and her husband
raised their children in the spirit of our fathers, imbuing them with a love
for Torah and Yiddishkeit. Her home was always open to the needy, even when
her family did not have enough to feed themselves.
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1) ABSORBED OIL
(a) (R. Yochanan): If oil was put on a Minchas Chotei, it is
Pasul;
(b) (Reish Lakish): L'Chatchilah, one should rub Minchas
Chotei on the leftover oil from the Log brought for a
(regular) Minchah, all the more so it is Kosher if oil
was put on it!
(c) Question: But it says "Lo Yasim Aleha Shemen v'Lo Yiten
Aleha Levonah"!
(d) Answer: That forbids putting oil on it *before* Kemitzah.
(e) Question (R. Yochanan - Beraisa): If a Charev (Minchas
Chotei or Minchas Sotah, which is not mixed with oil)
became mixed with a Balul (a Minchah that is mixed with
oil), we offer it;
1. R. Yehudah says, we do not offer it.
2. Suggestion: The case is, the Kometz of a Charev
became mixed with the Kometz of Minchas Nedavah.
(f) Answer: No, the case is, Minchas Nesachim for a bull or
ram (which has two Lugim of oil for each Isaron of flour)
became mixed with Minchas Nesachim for a lamb (three
Lugim of oil per Isaron. The former is called Charev, for
it is drier than the latter.)
(g) Question: Both of these are taught in the same Beraisa,
surely they are not the same case!
1. (Beraisa): If Minchas Nesachim for a bull or ram
became mixed with that of a lamb, or if a Charev
became mixed with a Balul, we offer it;
2. R. Yehudah says, we do not offer it.
(h) Answer: Both are the same case, the Seifa explains the
Reisha. (Even though the former is drier and absorbs from
the latter, Chachamim Machshir.)
(i) Question (Rava): If the oil of a Kometz was squeezed onto
wood, what is the law?
1. Are Chiburei Olim (things connected to something
offered on the Mizbe'ach) considered like Olim; or
not? (Rashi - if the Kometz is next to the oil, do
we consider it as if the oil is inside, or is it
considered Chaser? Alternatively - is it necessary
to burn the wood with the Kometz (because the oil is
still part of the Kometz, if it is not burned, the
Kometz is Chaser), or not? Tosfos - the question is
when some oil was absorbed and some is intact on the
wood, are they considered like one?)
(j) Suggestion (Ravina): R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish argued
about this!
1. (R. Yochanan): If one is Ma'aleh (b'Chutz) a k'Zayis
of meat *including* a bone (there is less than a
k'Zayis of meat), he is liable;
i. This is because Chiburei Olim (things connected
to something offered on the Mizbe'ach) are
considered like Olim;
2. (Reish Lakish): He is exempt - Chiburei Olim are not
like Olim.
(k) Rejection (Rav Ashi): No, it is not clear how either of
them would hold in Rava's case:
1. R. Yochanan only said that Chiburei Olim are like
Olim regarding a bone, for it is the same Min as
meat, but wood (alternatively - oil) is not the same
Min as a Kometz!
2. Reish Lakish only said that Chiburei Olim are not
like Olim regarding a bone, for if it came off the
fire, there is no Mitzvah to return it, but oil
would never come off the fire.
(l) This question is not resolved.
2) WHEN IS "MIN B'EINO MINO" NOT "BATEL"?
(a) (Mishnah): If two Menachos became mixed together before
Kemitzah:
1. If one can take a Kometz from each of them by itself
(e.g. they are mixed only in the middle, each is by
itself on the side), they are Kesherim, if not, they
are Pesulim;
(b) If a Kometz became mixed with a Minchah before Kemitzah,
we do not Maktir the mixture;
1. If a Kohen was Maktir the mixture; the owner of the
(Minchah which was) Nikmetzes fulfilled his
obligation, the owner of the other Minchah did not.
(c) If a Kometz became mixed with its Shirayim or those of
another Minchah, we do not Maktir the mixture;
1. If a Kohen was Maktir the mixture; the owner
fulfilled his obligation.
(d) (Gemara - Rav Chisda):If a Neveilah became mixed with a
majority of slaughtered animals, it is Batel, for it is
impossible for a slaughtered animal to become (an Av
ha'Tum'ah, like) a Neveilah (therefore, it is like Min
b'Eino Mino);
1. If a slaughtered animal became mixed with a
Neveilah, it is not Batel, for it is possible for a
Neveilah to become like a slaughtered animal (this
is like Min b'Mino.);
i. When a Neveilah rots, it becomes Tahor.
(e) (R. Chanina): If the Batel (minority) can become like the
Mevatel (majority), it is not Batel; if the Batel cannot
become like the Mevatel, it is Batel
(f) Question: According to which Tana are these teachings?
1. They are not like Chachamim - Chachamim say that
Olim do not Mevatel each other, but Min b'Mino is
Batel (whether or not one can become like the
other!)
2. They are not like R. Yehudah, for he says that Bitul
depends on the appearance (22A, Dam Par cannot
Mevatel Dam Sa'ir, even though neither can become
like the other) - Min b'Mino is never Batel, whether
or not one can become like the other!
23b---------------------------------------23b
(g) Answer: They are according to R. Chiya:
1. (Beraisa - R. Chiya): If slaughtered animals and
Neveilos became mixed, one of these (if it is the
majority) is Mevatel the other. (Rashba - if each of
them could Mevatel the other, whether or not it can
become like the other, R. Chiya would have said that
Min b'Mino is Batel, without specifying Neveilos and
slaughtered animals.)
(h) Question: Which Tana does R. Chiya hold like?
1. He is not like Chachamim - Chachamim say that Olim
do not Mevatel each other, but Min b'Mino is
(always) Batel!
2. He is not like R. Yehudah, for he says that Min
b'Mino is not (i.e. never) Batel!
(i) Answer: He is like R. Yehudah - really, R. Yehudah says
that Min b'Mino is not Batel only when one can become
like the other, but if one cannot become like the other,
there is Bitul;
1. Rav Chisda says that it depends upon the Mevatel (if
it cannot become like the Batel, there is Bitul);
2. R. Chanina says that it depends upon the Batel (if
it cannot become like the Mevatel, there is Bitul).
3) WHO IS THE AUTHOR OF OUR "MISHNAH"?
(a) (Mishnah): If two Menachos became mixed together before
Kemitzah - if one can take a Kometz from each of them by
itself they are Kesherim, if not, they are Pesulim.
(b) Observation: After taking one Kometz, the rest of that
Minchah is Shirayim;
(c) (Surely, there are pieces of the Tevel (the other
Minchah) amidst a majority of Shirayim - if these pieces
became Batel, the Tevel would be considered Chaser before
Kemitzah!)
1. Since both are Kesherim, we infer that the Shirayim
do not Mevatel the Tevel. (We cannot infer whether
or not the Tevel is Mevatel (pieces of) the
Shirayim, for Chisaron after Kemitzah is not Posel.)
(d) Question: Which Tana is this like?
1. It is not like Chachamim - Chachamim say that Olim
do not Mevatel each other, but Min b'Mino is Batel
(and Shirayim are not Olim)!
(e) Answer: Clearly, it is like R. Yehudah.
(f) Question: We understand according to R. Chanina - since
the Batel (Tevel) *can* become like the Mevatel
(Shirayim) (by doing Kemitzah), there is no Bitul;
1. But according to Rav Chisda, since the Mevatel
cannot become like the Batel, there should be Bitul,
the second Minchah should be Pasul!
2. Suggestion: Rav Chisda must say that our Mishnah is
unlike R. Chiya!
(g) Answer: No, he explains like R. Zeira.
1. (R. Zeira): It says "Haktarah" regarding the Kometz
and regarding Shirayim - just as Komtzim do not
Mevatel Komtzim (even R. Yehudah agrees to this in
our Mishnah), also Shirayim do not Mevatel Komtzim.
(h) (Mishnah): If a Kometz became mixed with a Minchah before
Kemitzah, we do not Maktir the mixture;
1. If a Kohen was Maktir the mixture; the owner of the
Nikmetzes fulfilled his obligation, the owner of the
Tevel did not.
(i) Inference: Since the Nikmetzes is Kosher, it follows that
the Tevel does not Mevatel the Kometz.
(j) Question: Which Tana is this like?
1. It is not like Chachamim - they say that Olim do not
Mevatel each other, but Min b'Mino is Batel (the
Tevel is not considered Olim, for it will not be
offered)!
(k) Answer: Clearly, it is like R. Yehudah.
(l) Question: We understand according to Rav Chisda - since
(part of) the Mevatel (Tevel) can become like the Batel
(Kometz) (by doing Kemitzah), there is no Bitul;
1. But according to R. Chanina, since the Batel cannot
become like the Mevatel, there should be Bitul, the
Nikmetzes should be Pasul!
2. Suggestion: R. Chanina must say that our Mishnah is
unlike R. Chiya!
(m) Answer: No, he explains like R. Zeira.
1. (R. Zeira): It says "Haktarah" regarding Kometz and
Shirayim - just as Komtzim do not Mevatel Komtzim
(even according to R. Yehudah), Shirayim do not
Mevatel Komtzim.
(n) (Mishnah): If a Kometz became mixed with (its Shirayim
or) Shirayim of another Minchah, we do not Maktir the
mixture;
1. If a Kohen was Maktir the mixture; the owner
fulfilled his obligation.
(o) Inference: Since it is Kosher, it follows that the
Shirayim do not Mevatel the Kometz.
(p) Question: Which Tana is this like?
(q) Answer: It is not like Chachamim (they would say that the
Shirayim Mevatel the Kometz!), rather, it is like R.
Yehudah.
(r) Question: Neither the Mevatel (Shirayim) nor Batel
(Kometz) can become like the other - Rav Chisda and R.
Chanina should agree that there is Bitul, this is unlike
R. Chiya!
(s) Answer (R. Zeira): It says "Haktarah" regarding Kometz
and Shirayim - just as Komtzim do not Mevatel Komtzim,
Shirayim do not Mevatel Komtzim.
4) SEASONED "MATZAH"
(a) (Beraisa): If Matzah was seasoned with Ketzach (black
cumin) or sesame or other spices, it is Kosher, for it is
(still) Matzah, just it is called seasoned Matzah.
(b) We are thinking that the spices are the majority.
(c) Question: We understand according to R. Chanina - since
the Batel (Matzah) can become like the Mevatel (spices),
when it will become moldy (it will lose the status of
Matzah), it is not Batel;
1. But according to Rav Chisda, since the Mevatel
cannot become like the Batel, there should be Bitul!
(d) Answer: The case is, the Matzah is the majority, not the
spices.
(e) Support: The Beraisa says, 'It is Matzah, just it is
called seasoned Matzah.'
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