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Kesuvos 60 1) RECOGNIZING THE MOTHER

(a) Question: At what age do we say that a child recognizes its mother?
(b) Answer #1 (Rav): 3 months.
(c) Answer #2 (Shmuel) 30 days.
(d) Answer #3 (R. Yochanan): 50 days.

1. (Rav Simi Bar Abaye): The law is as R. Yochanan.

(e) We understand, Rav and R. Yochanan - some babies are faster to recognize their mothers than others.

1. Question: According to Shmuel - can a baby recognize his mother after 30 days?
2. Answer (Rami Bar Yechezkeil): What was said in Shmuel's name (by my brother Rav Yehudah) is incorrect. Really, Shmuel said it only depends on when the baby recognizes her.

i. A woman came in front of Shmuel; Shmuel told Rav Dimi to see if her son recognized her. He sat her among other women, and passed her son by them. When he got to her, the baby was looking at her. He told her, she must nurse her son.

(f) Question: How can a blind baby recognize its mother?
(g) Answer: By smell and taste.

(a) (Beraisa - R. Eliezer): A child may nurse for 24 months; past this, it is as nursing from a disgusting thing;
(b) R. Yehoshua says, he may nurse 4 or 5 years. If he stopped nursing after 24 months and resumes, it is as nursing from a disgusting thing.
(c) Contradiction (Beraisa): One would think that human milk is forbidden;

1. This would be logical. By animals, we are lenient by the Tumah of touching them (they are Tahor while alive), but we forbid the milk of non-Kosher animals;
2. Humans, that can become Tamei while alive, all the more so we should say that their milk is forbidden!
3. "The camel ... *it* chews the cud" - (its milk is forbidden) - but the milk of humans is permitted.
4. One might think that only milk of humans is permitted, since milk of some animals is permitted - but regarding blood, the blood of every animal is forbidden, also the blood of humans should be forbidden!
5. "It" - is forbidden, but the blood of humans is permitted.

i. (Rav Sheshes): It is not even an attribute to refrain from human milk.

(d) Answer: When it has separated from the breast (into a vessel), it is permitted; to nurse (above the given age) is despicable.

1. The opposite applies to blood.

i. (Beraisa): Blood on a loaf - one scrapes it off and may then eat the loaf; blood between one's teeth - one may swallow it without concern.

(e) (Beraisa - R. Yehoshua): A child may nurse until 4 or 5 ...
(f) Contradiction (Beraisa - R. Yehoshua): Even if he can carry a bundle on his shoulder!
(g) Answer: This is the same Shi'ur (as 4 or 5).

1. (Rav Yosef): The law is as R. Yehoshua.

(h) (Beraisa - R. Marinus): A moaning child may nurse on Shabbos.

1. The reason is - nursing is Mefarek (a derivative of Dash (threshing)), done in an unskilled way (and is only forbidden mid'Rabanan); Chachamim did not prohibit it in a situation of pain.

i. (Rav Yosef): The law is as R. Marinus.

(i) (Beraisa - Nachum Ish Galya): A gutter pipe that became clogged - one may privately squash the clogging matter with his foot, without concern.

1. The reason is - this is an unskillful way of completing a vessel (normally, forbidden mid'Rabanan); in the place of a loss, Chachamim did not decree.
2. Nursing is Mefarek (a derivative of Dash (threshing)), done in an unskilled way (and is only forbidden mid'Rabanan); Chachamim did not prohibit it in a situation of pain.

i. (Rav Yosef) The law is as Nachum Ish Galya.

(j) (Beraisa): If he ceased nursing after 24 months, he may not resume nursing.
(k) Question: How long is considered that he stopped?
(l) Version #1: (Rav Yehudah Bar Chaviva, citing Shmuel): 3 days.
(m) Version #2: (Beraisa, said by Rav Yehudah Bar Chaviva, in front of Shmuel): 3 days.

(a) (Beraisa - R. Meir): A nursing woman was widowed during the 24 months of nursing. She may not get engaged or married until 24 months;

1. R. Yehudah says, she may remarry after 18 months;

(b) (R. Nasan Bar Yosef): These Tana'im argue as Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel.

1. Beis Shamai say that a baby should nurse 24 months; Beis Hillel say 18.

(c) (R. Shimon Ben Gamliel): The opinion that says 24 months - she may marry after 21;
(d) The opinion that says 18 months - she may marry after 15;

1. This is because milk does not get clouded during the first 3 months of pregnancy.

(e) (Ula): The law is as R. Yehudah.
(f) (Mar Ukva): R. Chanina permitted me to marry a nursing woman after the baby was 15 months old.
(g) Abaye's sharecropper asked if he may engage a nursing woman when the baby is 15 months old.

1. (Abaye): (Yes!) Firstly, the rule is the law is as R. Yehudah when he argues on R. Meir.
2. Secondly, the law is as Beis Hillel against Beis Shamai.
3. Thirdly, Ula ruled as R. Yehudah.
4. Fourthly, R. Chanina permitted this to Mar Ukva.
5. These rulings permit Nesu'in - all the more so, engagement is allowed!

(h) Abaye came before Rav Yosef (his Rebbi).

1. Rav Yosef: Rav and Shmuel both say that one must wait 24 months, excluding the day of birth and the day of engagement.
2. Abaye ran 3 Parsei (some say 1 Parsa in sand), but did not catch his sharecropper to retract his ruling.
3. Abaye: This that Chachamim say - 'Do not rule in the place of your Rebbi, even that eggs may be eaten with Kutach (which is dairy) - the reason is not because it shows arrogance - rather, he will rule incorrectly!

i. I had learned this teaching of Rav and Shmuel, still, I erred.

(i) (Beraisa): If a woman gave her baby to a wet-nurse, or weaned the baby, or the baby died, she may marry immediately.
(j) Rav Papa was ready to rule a case as this Beraisa. A woman told him, Rav Nachman had forbidden her to marry in such a case.
(k) Question: But Rav Nachman permitted widows of the Exilarch's house!
(l) Answer: A widow of the Exilarch's house is different - a wet-nurse that accepted to nurse her baby would not retract.
(m) Question (Rav Papi): Even without this woman's case, we could learn from a Beraisa!

1. (Beraisa - R. Meir): Even the following must wait 3 months before remarrying (even though it is unlikely or impossible that they are pregnant): a wife that was constantly going to her father's home;

i. Or, she was quarrelling with her husband;
ii. Her husband was imprisoned;
iii. Her husband was overseas;
iv. Her husband was too old to have children, or sick;;
v. She was too old to have children, or sterile, or an Ailonis, or a minor;
vi. She miscarried after her husband died;
vii. Her womb was uprooted;

2. R. Yosi says she may marry immediately.

i. (Rav Nachman): The law is as R. Meir in his decrees.

(n) Response (Rav Papa): I was not thinking about this Beraisa.
(o) The law is, if the baby died, she may marry; if she weaned it, she must wait;

1. (Mar Bar Rav Ashi): Even if it died, she must wait - otherwise, she may come to kill her baby in order to marry!

i. Such a case occurred, a woman choked her baby!

2. Rejection: No - that woman was insane - a normal woman would not kill her baby.

(a) (Beraisa): A woman that accepted to nurse a baby - she may not also nurse her own or another baby;
(b) If meager food was stipulated, she must still eat well;

1. Question: Who will pay for the extra food?
2. Answer (Rav Sheshes): She does.

(c) She may not eat things bad for the milk.

1. Question: What is bad for the milk?
2. Answer #1 (Rav Kahane): Hops, grass, small fish and earth.
3. Answer #2 (Abaye): Even gourds and quince.
4. Answer #3 (Rav Papa): Even bark and immature dates.
5. Answer #4 (Rav Ashi): Even Kutach (a dairy dish made with stale bread) and fried breaded fish.

i. Some of these withhold milk; others cloud it.

(d) People that have relations in a mill will have epileptic children; relations on the ground, the children will be long-necked;

1. If she walked on the blood of a donkey, the children will be bald or leprous; if she ate mustard, the children will be gluttonous;
2. If she ate cress, the children's eyes will constantly tear; if she often eats small fish, the children's eyes will always be moving;
3. If she ate earth, the children will be ugly; if she drank beer, the children will be black;
4. If she ate beef and drank wine, the children will be healthy