Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) ARE FIRST RELATIONS PERMITTED ON SHABBOS?

(a) In the house of Rav, they said that Rav permitted this, and Shmuel prohibited it.
(b) In Nehardai, they said that Rav prohibited it, and Shmuel permitted it.
(c) (Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak): A way to remember this - each place is lenient on themselves (each follows its teacher, and says that its teacher perm111itted it).
(d) Question: Does Rav really permit this?

1. Rav Simi Bar Chizkiyah cited Rav to say that one may not stuff a piece of cloth to seal a barrel (apparently, Rav holds as R. Yehudah. who prohibits something unintended (in this case, squeezing the cloth)).

(e) Answer: Stuffing the cloth will definitely lead to squeezing it.

1. Abaye and Rava say that R. Shimon admits in a Psik Reisha (a case when the unintended result will definitely happen).

(f) Question: Rav Chiya Bar Ashi said that Rav rules as R. Yehudah, and Rav Chanan Bar Ami said that Shmuel holds as R. Shimon!

1. Rav Chiya Bar Avin also learned this way.

(g) Answer: Rav truly holds as R. Yehudah.

1. According to the view that the blood is stored, he will hold that he ruins the opening.
2. According to the view that the blood is connected, he will hold that the wound is destructive.

(h) Question (Rav Chisda - Mishnah): A girl who was married below the age at which one expects to see (menstrual blood): Beis Shamai says that blood seen during relations the first 4 nights is virginal blood, and she remains permitted;

1. Beis Hilel says that this applies until the wound heals;
2. If she was married above this age, Beis Shamai says that this applies the first night; Beis Hilel says, until Saturday night, 4 nights.

3. (Summation of question): Doesn't this come to teach that they may have relations Shabbos night, even if they did not relations before?

(i) Answer (Rava): No, they may have relations any night except Shabbos.
(j) Question (Abaye): But it says, until Saturday night, 4 nights!
(k) (Retraction - Rava): Rather, we answer that in the Mishnah, they had relations before Shabbos.
(l) Question: If so, what do the words "until Saturday night" teach?
(m) Answer: That they may have relations on Shabbos.

1. (Shmuel): One may enter a narrow opening on Shabbos, even though he might make pebbles fall.

(n) Question (Rav Yosef): A Chasan is exempt from Krias Shma the first night, until Saturday night if he has not had relations.

1. Isn't this because he is distracted because he wants to have relations?

(o) Answer#1 (Abaye): No, he is troubled that he has not had relations.

1. Question (Rava): Is distress really an exemption from Krias Shma?
2. If so, one whose ship sank, is he also exempt?
3. If you will say yes - this opposes Rav, who said that a mourner is obliged to keep all Torah Mitzvahs, except for Tefilin, since they are referred to as "glory".

(p) Answer#2 (Rava): The Tana'im argue whether first relations are allowed on Shabbos (this Tana says they are permitted; Shmuel holds as the other Tana).
(q) (Beraisa#1): If he did not have relations on the 1st night, he is exempt (from Krias Shma) even on the 2nd; if he did not have relations on the 2nd night, he is exempt even on the 3rd (which is Shabbos).
(r) (Beraisa#2): He is exempt the 1st 2 nights, and obligated on the 3rd.
(s) Rebuttal (Abaye): The authors of both Beraisas agree that relations are forbidden - they argue whether distress is an exemption.
(t) (Rashi explains that the following is according to Rava): These 2 Tana'im argue as the following Tana'im.
(u) (Beraisa): One who marries a virgin may not have first relations on Shabbos; Chachamim permit it.

1. Question: Who are the Chachamim that permit it?
2. Answer (Rava): R. Shimon, who permits something unintended (in our case, a wound or making an opening).
3. Question (Abaye): But R. Shimon admits that a Psik Reisha is forbidden!
4. Answer (Rava): The Beraisa does not deal with Babylonians, that are unskilled in Hatiyah (tilting); it deals with those skilled in Hatiyah (for them, it is not a Psik Reisha).
5. Question: If they are skilled, why are they distracted?
6. Answer: Unskilled men are distracted.
7. Question: Only skilled men should be permitted!
8. Answer: Most men are skilled.

(v) Question (Rava Bar Rav Chanan): If most men are skilled, why (are first relations done with) Shushbinin (people to ensure that no one will lie about the presence of virginal blood) and a cloth?
(w) Answer (Abaye): Perhaps he will find blood and dispose of it.
(x) Question (Rav Ami): One who opens a boil on Shabbos, if his intention is to make a re-usable opening, he is liable; if he only wants to remove fluid, he is exempt.