Previous daf

1) Ravina asked ...

1. ... Rava what the point of the Takanas Chachamim of dating a Get is, seeing as the husband may well have placed the Get in his pocket in the hope that they will make up their disputes, and only handed to his wife at a later date. Rava replied - that people do not generally 'bring punishment forward' (meaning that a person does not write a Get before he has decided to divorce his wife).
2. ... Rav Ashi the same Kashya with regard to Gitin that arrived from overseas in Tishri, but which are dated in Nisan. Rav Ashi replied - that these Gitin have a Kol (everyone knows about them), as a result of which she will have to bring evidence as to when she received the Get, as regards both Peiros and adultery.

(a) According to Rav, one reckons the three months waiting period between one marriage and the next from the time that the woman receives the Get. According to Shmuel - she has three months from the date on the Get.

(b) Rav Nasan bar Hoshaya queried Shmuel from two women who live in the same Chatzer. The ...

1. ... case is - when a man gives each of his two wives a Get before going overseas, and one of them was dated one month earlier that the other.
2. ... problem is - that it appears strange when two women receive a Get simultaneously from the same husband, yet one of them is permitted to marry a month before the other one.

(c) Abaye resolves this Kashya - by pointing out that, since each one's Get clearly indicates when to begin counting the three months, there is nothing strange about it at all.

(a) One Beraisa supports Rav, another Beraisa supports Shmuel. The Tana in the former rules that even if the Sheli'ach spent three months bringing the Get to the woman - she still has to wait three months from the time that she receives it.

(b) The Tana concludes there 'u'le'Get Yashan Lo Chaishinan'. A Get Yashan is - when the couple secluded themselves after the Get has already been written.

(c) It is Pasul - because we suspect that a child will subsequently be born, and people will say that the Get preceded the child and that he was therefore born out of wedlock.

(d) The Tana of the Beraisa is not concerned about a Get Yashan - because there was no seclusion (seeing as they are in two different countries.

(a) In the Beraisa that supports Shmuel, the Tana says that when the husband hands a Get to a third party to give to his wife in three months time - she is permitted to remarry from the moment she receives the Get.

(b) Rav Kahana, Rav Papi and Rav Ashi reckoned from the time of writing (like Rav). Rav Papa and Rav Huna Brei de'Rav Yehoshua hold like Shmuel - whose opinion is Halachah.

(a) The termination of Sh'mitah generally cancels outstanding loans. It does not however, cancel a Kesuvah, because it is a Ma'aseh Beis-Din (and not a private loan).

(b) According to Rav, a Kesuvah only enters the realm of a loan after the woman has claimed part of it and the remainder has been transformed into a loan. According to Shmuel - either of the two will suffice.

(c) A Kesuvah leaves the realm of Ma'aseh Beis-Din and become a loan, the moment they go to Beis-Din with it.

(d) Both Rav and Shmuel enjoy the support of a Beraisa?

(a) The Tana (of the Beraisa which supports Shmuel) lists three cases (all to do with Nashim) together with Kesuvah - 'O'nes' (the fifty Shekel a man is obligated to pay the girl he raped); 'K'nas' (the hundred Shekel ... for slandering her the day after their marriage); 'Pituy' (the fifty Shekel ... for seducing her).

(b) Sh'taros of Ma'aseh Beis-Din enjoy the concession over ordinary Sh'taros - of being signed the night after they have been written (because the obligation is binding anyway, and the signing is no more than a formality).

(c) Shmuel incorporates Kesuvos in the realm of Ma'aseh Beis-Din - because, due to the mutual feeling of attachment between the Chasan and the Kalah, the Shibud takes effect immediately the Kesuvah is written (at the time of the Chupah), and the signatures are only a formality.

(a) The Kesuvah of Rav Chiya bar Rav was signed the night after it was written, and Rav himself was one of the signatories. This does not necessarily mean that Rav agrees with Shmuel regarding Kesuvah - because he may follow the opinion of Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Tzadok, who validates all Sh'taros that were written by day and signed by night provided the parties were 'Asukin be'Oso Inyan' (negotiating from the time of writing until the time of signing).

(b) The reason for this is - because, seeing as the witnesses were ready to sign immediately, only they had to wait until the negotiations were complete, there is a 'Kol' as if they had signed immediately.

(a) Rebbi Shimon validates a Get that is written by day and signed the following night - because, in his opinion, the man forfeits his rights to his wife's Peiros from the moment he decides to divorce her (as we explained on the previous Daf).

(b) Resh Lakish qualifies Rebbi Shimon's opinion, restricting it to when they signed that night, but not later ('mi'Ka'an ve'Ad Asarah Yamim') - because after that, we are afraid that he may have temporarily made up to her and they were intimate (making the subsequent Get a Get Yashan).

(c) Rebbi Yochanan says - that had they made up, the neighbors would know about it, and there would be a Kol. Consequently, if there is no Kol, there is no reason to differentiate between immediately and later.

9)

(a) According to Resh Lakish, if a man asks ten men to write a Get, all of them are witnesses. Rebbi Yochanan says - that they are all witnesses.

(b) The Mishnah in ha'Omer says - that if a man says to ten people 'Kisvu Get le'Ishti' - one of them writes the Get, and two of them act as witnesses.

(c) Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish speak when the husband specifically said 'Kulchem', whereas the Mishnah in ha'Omer speaks when he did not.

(d) There are two ramifications of their Machlokes. One of them is when two of the men concerned signed on the same day and the remainder, on subsequent days. According to Rebbi Yochanan, the Get is Kasher, according to Resh Lakish, it is Mukdam and therefore Pasul. The other - when one of the men is found to be a relation or Pasul for some other reason. In this case too, the Get will be Kasher according to Rebbi Yochanan, but Pasul according to Resh Lakish.

1. ... still be Kasher - because we take it for granted that they are among those who signed as part of the condition, and it is two of the other signatories who are the witnesses.
2. ... be Pasul (on account of a Takanas Chachamim) - because, by virtue of the fact that they signed first, people will assume that they signed as witnesses, and will go on to validate other Sh'taros whose two sole witnesses are relatives or Pasul.

(a) When the Get on which two of the specified men signed on the same day, and the others, up to ten days later came before him, Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi declared - that in time of emergency (such as here, where the husband had already left or because the woman had already married on the basis of the Get), one could rely on Rebbi Shimon, who validates a Get that has been written by day and signed by night.

(b) True, Resh Lakish restricted Rebbi Shimon's ruling to when the signatories signed immediately - but Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi follows the opinion of Rebbi Yochanan.

(c) Even though Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi holds like Rebbi Yochanan in the previous issue, nevertheless he needed to come on to Rebbi Shimon, because despite the fact that the subsequent signatories only sign in order to fulfill the condition (but not as witnesses) according to Rebbi Yochanan - in this regard, he holds like Resh Lakish (who requires all the specified men to sign as witnesses).