Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) COMMANDS OF A DYING MAN

(a) (Mishnah): At first, the law was that a man being taken out for execution that said 'Write a Get for my wife', we write and give it;
(b) Later Chachamim said, also one leaving to go overseas or into the wilderness;

1. R. Shimon Shezuri says, even a dying man.

(c) (Gemara): As Geneiva was being taken out for execution, he said 'Give 400 Zuz to R. Avina from (my) wine of Nehar Panya.

1. R. Zeira: Rav Huna would rule that we give the money to R. Avina.
2. (Rav Huna): If a dying man gives a Get, it is as his command to give a gift: just as he may retract his gift is he gets better, also he may retract a Get he gave;
3. R. Zeira: Rav Huna would also say, just as by a Get, it suffices if he says 'Write', even without saying 'Give' - also by a gift, it is enough that he says 'Give', even though witnesses did not acquire on behalf of the receiver.
4. Objection (R. Aba): Can you say that his Get and gift are the same in all respects?

i. His gift can be given after he dies - will you say that about a Get to his wife?!

5. Answer: That is no comparison!

i. A gift can be given after death, a Get cannot.

6. Correction: Rather, R. Aba asked as follows:
7. Objection (R. Aba): Geneiva was a dying man that only gave away part of his money - such a gift requires an acquisition.

(d) Question: We may infer, Rav Huna says that it does not require an acquisition - but we hold that an acquisition is needed!
(e) Answer: This case is different, he commanded to give the gift since he was sure he would die.
(f) Question: We may infer, R. Aba says that such a gift requires an acquisition - but we hold that no acquisition is needed! (g) Correction: Rather, R. Aba asked as follows:

1. Objection (R. Aba): Geneiva did not say to give wine, nor money obtained by selling his wine - he said, from his wine (and this is meaningless).
2. Rav Huna holds, he said this to give R. Avina the upper hand (to collect from wine or money, in case 1 of them was lost).

(a) (Mishnah): Someone in a pit said 'Whoever hears my voice, write a Get to my wife' - the ones that hear him may do this.
(b) (Gemara) Question: We should be concerned, perhaps a Shed said this!
(c) Answer (Rav Yehudah): The witnesses saw the form of a person.
(d) Question: Shedim can assume the form of a person!
(e) Answer: They saw his shadow.
(f) Question: Shedim also have shadows!
(g) Answer: They saw his shadow of a shadow.
(h) Question: Maybe Shedim also have shadows of shadows!
(i) Answer (R. Chanina): They only have shadows, not shadows of shadows.
(j) Question: Perhaps a co-wife gave this command (intending to trick and ruin her co-wife)!
(k) Answer (Beraisa - Tana d'Vei R. Yishmael): At a time of danger (or other situations which may lead to Igun), we may write and give a Get, even though we are not absolutely sure that the husband commanded it.
(l) (Mishnah): A healthy man said 'Write a Get to my wife' - he is only teasing her (since he did not say to give it).

1. A case occurred - A healthy man said 'Write a Get to my wife', went up to the roof and fell to his death;
2. R. Shimon ben Gamliel: If he intentionally jumped off, the Get is valid; if the wind blew him off, it is invalid.

(m) (Gemara) Question: The case brought contradicts the law just taught!
(n) Answer: The Mishnah is abbreviated, it should read thusly: If we later see that he really wanted to give the Get, it is valid;

1. A case occurred...

(o) A man entered a synagogue and saw Reuven (a Rebbi of children), Reuven's son and a third man; he asked that 2 of them should write a Get for his wife. Reuven died before a Get was written.

1. Question: Did the husband intend that Reuven's son may be his agent, considering that Reuven was there at the time?
2. Answer #1 (Rav Nachman): A person does not have such intention.
3. Answer #2 (Rav Papi): A person has such intention.

i. (Rava): The law is as Rav Papi.

(a) (Mishnah - R. Meir): A man asked 2 people to give a Get to his wife, or he asked 3 people to write and give a Get to his wife - they must write it and give it themselves;

(b) If he asked 3 people to give a Get to his wife, they may tell others to write (and give) it, for it is as if the husband made them a Beis Din.

1. R. Chanina of Ono testified that R. Akiva (who was imprisoned) also held as this.
2. R. Yosi: We told R. Chanina: we have a tradition, even if he asks the great Sanhedrin to give a Get, they cannot appoint someone else to write it, even if this necessitates that they learn to write.

(c) A man told 10 people to write and give a Get to his wife - it suffices that 1 writes and 2 sign;

1. If he said, 'All of you write' - 1 writes and all sign it;
2. Therefore, if 1 of them died before signing, the Get is invalid.

(d) (Gemara - R. Yirmeyah bar Aba) Question: A man asked 2 people to write and give a Get to his wife; they asked a scribe to write it, and they signed it - what is the law?
(e) Answer (Shmuel): If she remarried relying on this Get, she must leave her new husband - this law requires investigation.

1. Question: Why did he say that is must be investigated?

i. Suggestion: Shmuel is unsure if Mili (a mission in which nothing was given to the agent) can be transferred to another agent.
ii. Rejection: Shmuel cited Rebbi to say that the law is as R. Yosi, that Mili cannot be transferred to another agent!

2. Answer: Shmuel is unsure what the husband meant when he said 'write' - that they should sign the Get, or that they should write it.
3. Question: Why can't he learn that from our Mishnah?

i. (Mishnah): A man asked 2 people to give a Get to his wife, or 3 people to write and give it - they must write it and give it themselves.

4. Answer: Shmuel is unsure about what the Mishnah means 'they must write it' - that they must sign it, or that they must write the Get itself.
5. Question: Obviously, it must mean writing the Get itself - in the end of the Mishnah, R. Yosi says that if he asked the great Sanhedrin to give a Get, they cannot appoint someone else to write it, even if this necessitates that they learn to write.

i. We can understand this if he means, they must write the Get itself - but could you find a Sanhedrin that does not know how to sign?!

6. Answer: Yes - a new Beis Din might not know how to sign.
7. Question: If 'write' means to sign, Shmuel would say that they can ask another to write the Get - but Shmuel cited Rebbi to say that the law is as R. Yosi, that Mili cannot be transferred to another agent!
8. Answer: If 'write' means to sign, perforce the man wanted them to ask another person to write the Get - it is as if he told them to appoint another person to write it;

i. R. Yosi agrees that Reuven may tell Shimon 'Appoint an agent for me'.

9. Question: Does R. Yosi really agree to this?

i. (Mishnah): A Get written by a scribe and signed by 1 witness is valid;
ii. (R. Yirmeyah): The text of the Mishnah says 'A Get signed by the scribe and 1 witness is valid'.
iii. (Rav Chisda): The Mishnah is as R. Yosi, who says that Mili cannot be transferred to another agent.
iv. (Summation of question): If R. Yosi agrees that Reuven may tell Shimon 'Appoint an agent for me' - this may lead to disaster!
v. Sometimes, a man tells 2 people to ask a scribe to write a Get, and that 2 others should sign it. To avoid embarrassing the scribe, they will ask him to sign as 1 of the witnesses, and the husband did not authorize this (so the Get is invalid)!

10. Answer: Lechatchilah, it is forbidden to ask 2 people to ask a scribe and witnesses to write and sign the Get, therefore we are not concerned for the above case.
11. Question: Perhaps a man will tell 2 witnesses to ask a scribe to write a Get and to sign it themselves; to avoid embarrassing the scribe, they will ask him to sign as 1 of the witnesses!
12. Answer: Lechatchilah, it is forbidden to ask 2 witnesses to ask a scribe to write the Get, even if they will sign it themselves.
13. Question: Not all agree to the above law - how can we answer for the opinion that one may ask 2 witnesses to ask a scribe to write the Get, if they will sign it themselves?
14. Answer: R. Yosi said 2 laws; Shmuel holds as R. Yosi regarding 1 of them (Mili cannot be transferred to another agent, in cases other than when the first agent was told to do so);

i. Shmuel argues on R. Yosi when an agent is told to appoint another agent - Shmuel holds that this does work.