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Eruvin 29

1) RAV YOSEF BECAME UPSET WITH RAV MENASHYA

QUESTION: The Beraisa teaches the respective amounts of spices, vegetables, nuts, and fruits of Ma'aser Ani that one must give to an Ani on the threshing grounds. Rav Menashya bar Sheguvli said in the name of Rav that one must use the same amounts when making an Eruv with those foods.

Rav Yosef exclaimed that Rav Menashya is incorrect ("May Hashem forgive Rav Menashya" for his awful error). When Rav said that "the same applies to Eruv," he did not say it upon hearing the Beraisa, but rather he said it with regard to a Mishnah which teaches the respective amounts of wheat, barley, figs, wine, and oil of Ma'aser Ani that one must give to an Ani on the threshing grounds.

The Gemara asks what is the difference whether Rav made his statement with reference to the Beraisa or the Mishnah? Either way, the amounts of food required for making an Eruv should be the same as the amount required for Ma'aser Ani, no matter what type of food is used. The Gemara answers that Rav Yosef insisted that Rav made his statement with reference to the Mishnah, because we find that Rav stated explicitly that the amount of wine needed to make an Eruv is the same as that needed for Ma'aser Ani (two Revi'iyos).

How does this answer the Gemara's question? Why was Rav Yosef so upset to hear Rav's statement that "the same applies to Eruv" repeated with reference to the Beraisa. Even if it was originally said with regard to the Mishnah, the same should be true of the Beraisa, since the required amounts of the different types of food for Ma'aser Ani and for Eruv Techumim will still be the same!

ANSWERS:

(a) RASHI, as explained by the Ritva, says that Rav Yosef was upset that Rav Menashya did not recount the statement the way Rav Yosef had originally taught it to him. Rav Menashya's inaccuracy has no Halachic ramifications, though.

(b) TOSFOS (DH Mai Ulmei) and the TOSFOS HA'ROSH answer that Rav's statement was said only regarding the items in the Mishnah. His statement would *not* apply to the items mentioned in the Beraisa -- that is, the amounts listed in the Beraisa would *not* apply to Eruv. When the Gemara says "What is the difference whether Rav's statement was said of the Mishnah or the Beraisa," it does not mean to imply that Rav's statement is true of both. Rather, the Gemara is asking how *Rav Yosef* knew which one it was said about. Once it has been determined that Rav's statement was made about the Mishnah, we may conclude that the amounts listed in the Beraisa perhaps do *not* apply to Eruvin.

(c) The RA'AVAD, cited by the Rashba, explains that since Rav said that the measure of *wine* is the same for Eruv as it is for Ma'aser Ani, it can be inferred that he made his statement ("the same applies to Eruv") *only* with regard to wine. Not only was Rav's statement limited to the Mishnah, but it was limited to only *one case* in the Mishnah -- the case of wine. The Gemara is saying that from Rav's statement about wine it can be inferred that his statement that "the same applies to Eruv" was said with reference *only* to wine. (However, initially, when the Gemara thought that his statement referred to everything in the Mishnah, it assumed that it would refer to everything in the Beraisa as well.)

(d) TOSFOS RABEINU PERETZ explains that Rav Yosef was upset with Rav Menashya bar Sheguvli because he was misleading people. Normally, the amount of wine needed for a Mitzvah is a Revi'is. If we were taught that Rav's statement was said in regard to the Beraisa (which does not mention wine), we might not have realized that when it comes to Eruv Techumim, a Revi'is of wine is not sufficient. Therefore, Rav Yosef was upset with Rav Menashya for not relating Rav's statement accurately as referring to the Mishnah, which includes wine.

29b

QUESTION: The Gemara says that raw meat may be used for making an Eruv. An Eruv must be made of something that people can eat on Shabbos. How, then, can raw meat be used for an Eruv? People do not eat raw meat!

ANSWERS:

(a) The RASHBA and RAN explain that "raw meat" here refers to meat that was salted but not yet cooked. Salting processes the meat like roasting, and people eat salted meat.

(b) The RITVA explains that "raw" does not mean completely raw, but partially raw, as we find the term used in Sanhedrin (70b) and elsewhere.

(c) The KORBAN NESANEL (3:1:400, and in Shabbos 18:3:7) says that even meat that is completely raw is also usable for an Eruv. People do eat such meat, as the Gemara says in Shabbos (128a), because raw meat is "Chazi l'Umtza." (Although the Gemara says "Chazi l'Umtza" with regards to soft meat that is eaten raw, the Korban Nesanel asserts that hard meat is also fit to being eaten raw.)