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1) IS "ISUR CHAL AL ISUR"?

(a) (R. Ami or R. Asi): One who cooks Chelev with milk is lashed.
(b) (The other of R. Ami and R. Asi): He is not lashed.
(c) Suggestion: They argue whether Isur Chal Al Isur (it is already forbidden to eat Chelev).
(d) Rejection: No - all agree, Ein Isur Chal Al Isur;

1. Version #1: All agree that one is not lashed for eating Basar v'Chalav; they argue whether he is lashed for cooking it.

i. One says that cooking it is an Isur unto itself.
ii. The other opinion says, since (in this case) one is not liable for eating Basar v'Chalav, one is not liable for cooking it.

2. Version #2: All agree that he is lashed for cooking it; they argue whether he is lashed for eating it.

i. One exempts, because Ein Isur Chal Al Isur;
ii. The other is Mechayav - since one is liable for cooking it, one is liable for eating it.

3. Version #3: They do not argue - one is Mechayev for cooking it, the other exempts one who eats it.

(e) Question (Beraisa): One who cooks any of the following is exempt:

1. Meat in whey; blood in milk; bones, sinews, horns or hooves in milk.
2. One is liable for cooking Basar v'Chalav even if the meat was Pigul (a Korban offered with intent to eat the meat after the allotted time), Nosar (a Korban that was not eaten in the allotted time) or Tamei (Kodshim).

(f) Answer: This Tana holds that Isur Chal Al Isur.

(a) (Beraisa): One who cooks meat in whey is exempt.
(b) This supports Reish Lakish.

1. (Mishnah): Whey is like milk; juice that drips from olives is like oil.
2. (Reish Lakish): This is only regarding Hechsher of food to receive Tum'ah - but regarding Basar v'Chalav, whey is not like milk.

(c) (Beraisa #1) Question: "Gedi ba'Chalev Imo" - what is the source to include milk of a cow or sheep (i.e. that the Isur to cook a goat with milk applies to them? Tosfos - Gedi can refer to any species, we ask about cooking a species in milk of another species).
(d) Answer: A Kal va'Chomer teaches this:

1. A goat may be mated with its mother, yet it may not be cooked in its mother's milk - a goat may not be mated with a cow or sheep, all the more so it may not be cooked in their milk!
2. "Ba'Chalev Imo" is extra, to include milk of a cow or sheep.
3. Question: Why do we need a verse, the Kal va'Chomer teaches this!
4. Answer (Rav Ashi): The Kal va'Chomer can be refuted;

i. We learned from (the Isur to cook a kid in milk of) its mother - perhaps the Torah is more stringent about the mother, just like it forbids Oso v'Es Beno (slaughtering an animal and its mother on the same day)!

5. Therefore, the verse is needed.

(e) Version #1 (brought in Rashi) - (Beraisa #2): Question: "[Gedi] ba'Chalev Imo" - what is the source to include cow's milk?
(f) Answer: A Kal va'Chomer teaches this:

1. A goat may enter the pen (for taking Ma'aser) with its mother, yet it may not be cooked in its mother's milk - a goat may not enter the pen with a cow, all the more so it may not be cooked in cow's milk!
2. "Ba'Chalev Imo" - this is extra, to include cow's milk.
3. Question: Why do we need a verse, the Kal va'Chomer teaches this!
4. Answer (Rav Ashi): The Kal va'Chomer can be refuted;

i. We learned from its mother - perhaps the Torah is more stringent about the mother, just like it forbids Oso v'Es Beno!

5. Therefore, the verse is needed.

(g) (Continuation of Beraisa #2) Question: What is the source to include milk of a sheep?
(h) Answer: We learn from a kid's mother and a cow:

1. Question: May we learn from one of them?
2. Suggestion: We may learn from a kid's mother.
3. Objection: Perhaps the Torah is more stringent about the mother, just like it forbids Oso v'Es Beno!
4. Answer: It may not be cooked in milk of a cow, even though it may be slaughtered on the same day like a cow.
5. Question: Perhaps the Torah is more stringent about a cow, since a goat may not enter the pen (for Ma'aser) with a cow!
6. Answer: We see that it may not be cooked in its mother's milk, even though it may enter the pen with its mother!

i. The stringencies of its mother and a cow are different; the Tzad ha'Shaveh is, they are animals, and it is forbidden to cook a kid in their milk - the same applies to sheep.

7. Question: We learned a cow from the verse, and a small sister (sheep) from the Tzad ha'Shaveh;

i. Perhaps the verse includes [a sheep], and the Tzad ha'Shaveh of a kid's mother and sheep teaches about a big sister (cow)!

(i) Version #2 (R. Yosef Tuv Elem, brought in Rashi) - (Continuation of Beraisa #1) Question: What is the source to include milk of a big sister (an old goat, which already was tithed)?
(j) Answer: A Kal va'Chomer teaches this:

1. A kid may enter the pen with its mother, yet it may not be cooked in its mother's milk - a kid may not enter the pen with its big sister (for the latter was already tithed), all the more so it may not be cooked in milk of a big sister!
2. "Ba'Chalev Imo" - this is extra, to include milk of a big sister.
3. Question: Why do we need a verse, the Kal va'Chomer teaches this!
4. Answer (Rav Ashi): The Kal va'Chomer can be refuted.

i. We learned from its mother - perhaps the Torah is more stringent about the mother, just like Oso v'Es Beno is forbidden!
ii. Therefore, the verse is needed.

(k) (Continuation of Beraisa #1) Question: What is the source to include milk of a small sister (that has not been tithed)?
(l) Answer: We learn from its mother and a big sister:

1. Question: May we learn from one of them?
2. Suggestion: Perhaps we learn from its mother.
3. Objection: Perhaps the Torah is more stringent by the mother, like it is regarding Oso v'Es Beno!
4. Answer: We find that a kid may not be cooked in milk of a big sister, even though they may be slaughtered on the same day.
5. Question: Perhaps the Torah is more stringent about a big sister, since a kid may not enter the pen with a big sister!
6. Answer: A kid may not be cooked in its mother's milk, even though it may enter the pen with its mother!

i. The stringencies of its mother and a big sister are different; the Tzad ha'Shaveh is, they are Basar, and it is forbidden to cook a kid in their milk - the same applies to a small sister.

7. Question: Likewise, we should not need a verse to include a small sister, we can learn a from a Tzad ha'Shaveh (of its mother and a cow)! (end of Version #2)
8. Answer: Indeed, that is correct!
9. Question: If so, what do we learn from the extra "Ba'Chalev Imo"?
10. Answer: This teaches like the following Beraisa.

(a) (Beraisa) Question: "Ba'Chalev Imo" - what is the source to include its own milk?

(b) Answer: We learn from a Kal va'Chomer:

1. It is permitted to slaughter two products (children) of an animal in one day, but it is forbidden to slaughter one product with the mother;
2. We may not cook one product (milk) with another product (its child) - all the more so, it is forbidden to cook one product (milk) with the mother!
3. "Ba'Chalev Imo" is extra, to include milk of an old goat.

(c) Question: Why do we need a verse, the Kal va'Chomer teaches this!
(d) Answer #1 (Rav Achdevoy bar Ami): The Kal va'Chomer can be refuted:

1. If a female horse had a son from a horse, and a daughter (mule) from a donkey, the two products (offspring) are forbidden (to mate) with each other, but the product (son) is permitted with its mother!

(e) Rejection: There, the Isur (to mate them) is on account of the father (not because they are products of the same mother);

1. If a female horse had a son and daughter from donkeys, the offspring (mules) may mate with each other, but the son is forbidden with the mother!

(f) Answer #2 (Mar brei d'Ravina): The Kal va'Chomer can be refuted:

1. If a female (Kana'ani slave) had a son and daughter, and the daughter was freed, the two products (children) are forbidden to [marry] each other, but the product (son) is permitted to his mother!

(g) Rejection: There, the Isur is on account of the freedom (not because they are products of the same mother);

1. If the mother was freed but not the daughter, the children would be permitted to each other, but the son would be forbidden to his mother!

(h) Answer #3 (Rav Idi bar Avin): The Kal va'Chomer can be refuted:

1. Vegetation is a product of the ground; it is forbidden to plant together diverse species, but either product is permitted to [be planted in] the mother (ground)!

(i) Rejection: There, the products are forbidden only when planted in the ground (mother) - it is permitted to place diverse species in a jar!
(j) Answer #4 (Rav Ashi): The Kal va'Chomer learns from one product (milk) with another product (its child), which are two distinct entities - we cannot learn to a product (milk) with the mother, for they are like one entity!

(a) (Rav Ashi): The source to forbid eating Basar v'Chalav is "Do not eat any abomination" - anything the Torah forbade doing, it is forbidden to eat the result.
(b) Question: What is the source to forbid benefit from it?
(c) Answer: We learn like R. Avahu:

1. (R. Avahu): Wherever the Torah says "Will not be eaten" or "Do not eat," this also forbids getting benefit, unless there is a source to permit benefit, like we find by Neveilah.
2. (Beraisa - R. Meir): "Do not eat any Neveilah, to a Ger (Toshav, i.e. a Ben No'ach who accepted to guard his Mitzvos) you will give it (for free)...or sell it to a Nochri (idolator).
3. Question: This permits giving it to a Ger or selling it to a Nochri - what is the source to permit selling it to a Ger?
4. Answer: "To a Ger you will give it...or sell."
5. Question: What is the source to permit giving it to a Nochri?
6. Answer: "You will give it...or sell it to a Nochri."

i. Conclusion: It may be given or sold to a Ger or Nochri.

7. R. Yehudah says, it is permitted only like the Torah says, a gift to a Ger or a sale to a Nochri.

(d) Question: What is R. Yehudah's reason?
(e) Answer: If the Torah meant like R. Meir, it should have said 'To a Ger you will give it...*and* sell...';

i. Rather, it says "*or* sell," to teach that one may only do like the Torah said.

2. R. Meir says, "or" teaches that it is better to give it to a Ger than to sell it to a Nochri.
3. R. Yehudah says, since we are commanded to support a Ger but not a Nochri, we already know that a gift to a Ger is better.