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1) IS A "BEN PEKU'AH" AN INDEPENDENT ANIMAL?

(a) Question: If the slaughtered mother becomes Tamei - does the Ben Peku'ah become a Rishon (first-degree) l'Tumah with its mother, or does it become a Sheni l'Tumah from its mother?
(b) Answer #1 (R. Yochanan): It becomes a Sheni.
(c) Answer #2 (Reish Lakish): It becomes a Rishon - the mother is like a protective shell around it, they become Tamei together.
(d) Question (Reish Lakish - Mishnah - R. Meir): The fetus is like meat that touched a Neveilah; Chachamim say, it is like meat that touched a slaughtered Treifah.

1. According to me, we understand why the fetus is Huchshar - it and its mother are considered to be one animal;
2. You (R. Yochanan) consider the fetus to be separate - how did it become Huchshar?

(e) Answer (R. Yochanan): The Mishnah is like R. Shimon, who says that slaughter is Machshir (since slaughter permits (the mother and) the fetus, it is also Machshir the fetus.)
(f) Question (R. Yochanan - Beraisa): If a Ben Peku'ah passed through a river, it became Huchshar; if it walked through a cemetery, it became Tamei.

1. According to me, we understand why it is not Huchshar (through its mother's slaughter, rather,) until it goes through the river, for it is considered distinct from its mother;
2. You (Reish Lakish) say that they are like one animal - it should be Huchshar from the slaughter!

(g) Answer: No blood exuded when the mother was slaughtered; the Beraisa is unlike R. Shimon (who says that slaughter itself is Machshir).
(h) Question: Who is the Tana of the Beraisa, who holds that a Ben Peku'ah can become Huchshar and Tamei?
(i) Answer (R. Yochanan): It is R. Yosi ha'Galili:

1. (Beraisa - R. Yosi ha'Galili): A Ben Peku'ah can receive Tum'as Ochlim; it needs Hechsher;
2. Chachamim say, it is alive, and anything alive cannot receive Tum'as Ochlim.

(j) This is consistent with another teaching of R. Yochanan.

1. (R. Yochanan): R. Yosi ha'Galili and Beis Shamai agree about this matter.

i. (Mishnah - Beis Shamai): Fish can Mekabel Tum'ah from when they are trapped; Beis Hillel say, from when they die; R. Akiva says, from the time they are unable to survive.
ii. Question: What is the difference between R. Akiva and Beis Hillel (Rashi; Tosfos - between R. Akiva and Beis Shamai)?
iii. Answer (R. Yochanan): They argue about a fish that is jumping around (Rashi - but has dried up and will die; Tosfos - that has been trapped, but could survive).

(k) Question (Rav Chisda): Does R. Akiva consider Treifah fish to be unable to live?

1. This may be asked according to either opinion regarding Treifah animals:

i. According to the opinion that Treifah animals can live - since fish have less vitality, perhaps Treifah fish cannot live.
ii. According to the opinion that Treifah animals cannot live - perhaps since slaughter does not apply to fish, Treifos do not apply, either.

(l) This question is unresolved.

(a) Version #1 (R. Yochanan): If an animal miscarried, the Chelev of the child is forbidden like Chelev of a Behemah;
(b) (Reish Lakish): It is permitted, like Chelev of a Chayah.

1. R. Yochanan holds that since it was born, the fetus is considered a Behemah;
2. Reish Lakish says, it is considered a Behemah only if it was born after the full term (of pregnancy.)

(c) Version #2: If it miscarried before the full term, all permit the Chelev;

1. They argue when Chelev was extracted from a living fetus after the full term.
2. (R. Yochanan): It is like Chelev of a Behemah, since the fetus had full development;
3. (Reish Lakish): It is permitted, because the fetus was not born.

(d) Version #1 - Question (R. Yochanan - Beraisa): Chelev and the kidneys of an Asham are Huktar (burned on the Mizbe'ach) - we are not Maktir Chelev of a fetus (inside an Asham, which is always a male);

1. We learn to all Korbanos (even females), that Chelev of a fetus is not offered.
2. This is like my opinion, that Chelev of a fetus is forbidden - therefore we must learn that it is not offered;
3. According to you, since it is permitted, surely, it is not offered!

(e) Answer (Reish Lakish): I learn from here (that the Chelev is not offered) that it is permitted!
(f) Version #2 - Question (Reish Lakish - Beraisa): Chelev and the kidneys of an Asham are Huktar - we are not Maktir Chelev of a fetus;

1. We learn to all Korbanos that Chelev of a fetus is not offered.
2. This is like my opinion, that Chelev of a fetus is permitted - therefore, it is not offered;
3. According to you, it is forbidden - why can't it be offered?

(g) Answer (R. Yochanan): (Every part of) the fetus is like an animal less than eight days old, which is too young to be offered.

(a) (R. Ami): If one slaughters a Treifah and finds a full term fetus inside:

1. R. Meir, who forbids in our Mishnah (he requires slaughtering a child found inside a Kosher slaughtered animal), permits this fetus through slaughter;
2. Chachamim, who permit in our Mishnah, forbid this fetus, even if it is slaughtered.

(b) (Rava): All permit this fetus through its own slaughter - the Torah allowed a fetus to be permitted through slaughter of its mother (if she is Kosher) *or* through its own slaughter.
(c) (Rav Chisda): If one slaughters a Treifah and finds a full term fetus inside, the child must be slaughtered, and the foreleg, jaw and stomach (Matanos to the Kohen) must be given;

(d) If it dies, it does not Metamei b'Masa (i.e. one who moves it.)
(e) Question (Rabah): You require the child to be slaughtered - this is like R. Meir;

1. How can you say that if it dies, it does not Metamei b'Masa - that is like Chachamim!
2. Counter-question (Rav Chisda - Beraisa - R. Chiya): If one slaughters a Treifah and finds a full term fetus inside, the child must be slaughtered, Matanos must be given;
3. If it dies, it does not Metamei b'Masa.

i. (Summation of counter-question): The child must be slaughtered - this is like R. Meir; if it dies, it does not Metamei b'Masa - this is like Chachamim!

4. Answer (Rabah): The Seifa is when the fetus died before the mother was slaughtered, R. Meir admits in that case.
5. Question (Rabah, to Rav Chisda): You did not give that answer - how do you answer (question (e))?

(f) Answer (Rav Chisda): Chachamim permit a fetus through slaughter of its mother (if she is Kosher) *or* through its own slaughter - when the mother is Treifah, they also require it to be slaughtered.
(g) R. Zeira taught like Rav Chisda.
(h) R. Asi: Very good - R. Yochanan also taught thusly!
(i) Inference: (R. Asi did not say that also Reish Lakish taught thusly, even though he always learned with R. Yochanan -) presumably, Reish Lakish argues!
(j) Version #1 - Rejection: No - Reish Lakish normally waits before contesting R. Yochanan's teachings; R. Asi did not wait to see whether or not he argued.
(k) Version #2 - Rejection: No - Reish Lakish was drinking when R. Yochanan taught this; R. Asi did not wait to see if he argued.

(a) (Mishnah): R. Shimon Shezuri says...
(b) Question: This is like Chachamim!
(c) Answer (Rav Kahana): They argue if the child stepped on the floor. (Chachamim decree that it must be slaughtered, lest people come to eat (regular) animals without slaughter.)
(d) (Rav Mesharshiya): According to Chananya (who says that the status of a animal is partially influenced by its father), if a Ben Peku'ah mates with a normal female, even slaughter does not permit the child. (It is as if the child is half slaughtered, there is no way to complete the slaughter.)
(e) Version #1 (Abaye): Chachamim agree that a Ben Peku'ah with unsplit hooves does not need slaughter, even if it stepped on the ground;

1. This is because people remember bizarre things (they will remember that it was a Ben Peku'ah, they will not think that animals do not need slaughter.)

(f) Version #2 (Abaye): If a Ben Peku'ah with unsplit hooves was found inside a Ben Peku'ah with unsplit hooves, Chachamim agree that the child does not need slaughter, even if it stepped on the ground;

1. People remember doubly bizarre things.

(g) (Ze'iri): The Halachah follows R. Shimon Shezuri; he permits all offspring of a Ben Peku'ah (without slaughter) for all generations;
(h) (R. Yochanan): It is permitted, its child is forbidden.
(i) Ada bar Chabo had a Ben Peku'ah that was Nidras by a wolf.

1. Rav Ashi: Go slaughter it.
2. Ada bar Chabo: But Ze'iri said that the Halachah follows R. Shimon Shezuri (slaughter is not needed even for the offspring)! Also R. Yochanan does not require slaughtering a Ben Peku'ah!
3. Rav Ashi: R. Yochanan only said that according to R. Shimon Shezuri (but the Halachah follows Chachamim).
4. Ada bar Chabo: But Ravin said that the Halachah follows R. Shimon Shezuri wherever he appears in the Mishnayos!
5. Rav Ashi: I hold like R. Yonason, that the Halachah follows R. Shimon only regarding a dying man and Terumas Ma'aser of Demai (doubtfully tithed produce).

i. (Mishnah): At first, there was only one case in which we would (write and) *give* a Get when the husband said only 'Write a Get for my wife' - a man being taken for execution;
ii. Later, this law was also applied to a man departing on a boat or with a caravan;
iii. R. Shimon Shezuri says, it also applies to a dying man.
iv. (Mishnah - R. Shimon Shezuri): Terumas Ma'aser was separated on Demai; it then became mixed with the (99 parts of) Demai it was separated for - even if this was not on Shabbos, the seller (of the Demai) is believed to say that he had separated Ma'aser (so the buyer's separation was void).