Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

8) A BURNING KNIFE

(i) (R. Zeira): If one slaughtered with a glowing hot knife, the animal is Kosher - the blade cuts the signs (of slaughter, the windpipe and esophagus) before the heat is able to burn a hole through them.
(ii) Question: But the sides of the blade burns holes in the signs on the sides of the cut!
(iii) Answer: As the signs are cut, the 2 sides of each sign move apart, and the sides of the blade do not touch them.
(iv) Question: A person was hit with a glowing hot spit - is the scar considered a wound or a burn (regarding Tzara'as)?

1. Question: What difference does it make (in either case, if a plague appears on it, the law is the same)!
2. Answer (Beraisa): A (plague on a) wound or burn, the person is a (closed) &Metzorah for at most 7 days; if it spreads, or if a white hair appears in it, he becomes an absolute leper&Metzorah.
3. Question: Why did the Torah teach the laws of a plague on a wound or burn separately?
4. Answer: To teach that they do not join to each other (if neither is the size of a bean - only a bean-sized plague makes a person a leper&Metzorah).
5. (Beraisa): A wound - this results from a blow from wood, stone, (hot) residue of olives, hot spring water of Tiverya, and anything that is not hot because of fire.

à. The last clause comes to include molten lead, as found in the ground.

6. A burn - this results when he is scalded by a coal, hot ashes, burning limestone, or anything heated by fire.

à. This last clause comes to include water heated by fire.

7. (Beraisa): A wound and burn (in the same place) - if the wound came first, it is treated as a burn; if the burn came first, it is treated as a wound.
8. Reiteration of question (d:1): When does it make a difference, if the scar is called a wound or burn?
9. Answer: If the person already had a wound half the size of a bean, and received another half-bean scar (from a glowing hot spit) next to the burn.

à. If the wound comes first (on the new scar, the new scar) is treated as a burn, and a plague on it does not join to a plague on the original wound;
á. If the burn comes first, it is treated as a wound, and joins to the original wound.

(v) Answer #1: We can learn from R. Zeira's law - slaughter with a glowing hot knife is Kosher - the blade cuts before the heat burns.

1. This shows that the wound precedes the burn!

(vi) Rejection: Perhaps that case is different - a knife is sharp, therefore the wound comes first.
(vii) Answer #2 (Beraisa): A person was hit with a glowing hot spit - the scar is considered a burn.
(viii) Rejection: One cannot learn from this - here also, the spit is sharp, therefore the wound comes first. (Rashba; Rashi's text apparently did not say 'it is sharp' - he explains, we cannot learn from here, perhaps the Beraisa speaks in a case that he was merely poked (and there is only a burn).

(i) (Rav Nachman): A knife used for idolatry - one may slaughter with it, but he may not cut meat with it;

1. One may slaughter with it, for this is not benefit (the animal was worth more alive)!
2. He may not cut meat with it, for this improves the meat.

(ii) (Rava) Sometimes one may not slaughter with it - if the animal might die soon, he benefits by slaughtering it;

1. A nice section of a slaughtered animal - one may cut this with the knife, since it is worth more when it is whole, it is fitting as a gift to an important person.

(iii) Question: Even if the knife was not used for idolatry (but just for cutting any forbidden meat) one may not cut with it, because it absorbed forbidden fat!

(iv) Answer #1: We need to hear the law by a new knife (it was merely designated to use for idolatry).
(v) Objection: But R. Yishmael and R. Akiva both agree that the knife is not idolatry itself. merely something used for idolatry, and is permitted until it is used!
(vi) Answer #2: The knife was used to serve idolatry by cutting wood (so it never absorbed fat).
(vii) Answer #3: The knife was purged of absorbed fat by making it glowing hot.
(viii) (Rav): One who slaughters with the knife of a non-Jew - one must peel off a layer from the areas cut;

1. (Rabah bar bar Chanah): It suffices to rinse them.

(ix) Suggestion: They argue whether the place of slaughter is hot enough to cause absorbed taste in a knife to enter the meat. (x) Rejection #1: No - all agree, it is hot enough.

1. We understand why Rav says that one must peel off a layer.
2. Rabah bar bar Chanah says that it suffices to rinse - since the signs of slaughter are busy exuding blood, they are unable to absorb tastes exuding from the knife.

(xi) Rejection #2: No - all agree, it is not hot enough.

1. We understand why Rabah bar bar Chanah says that it suffices to rinse.
2. Rav says that one must peel off a layer - the sharpness of the knife causes its absorbed tastes to enter the meat.

(xii) (Rav Acha or Ravina): A knife used to slaughter a Treifah (a mortally damaged animal) - one must immerse the knife in boiling water to permit using it;
(xiii) (The other of Rav Acha bar Yakov and Ravina): It suffices to wash it in cold water.

1. The law is, cold water suffices;
2. If one has a hard, worn out garment, it suffices to clean it with the garment.

(xiv) Question: The opinion that says that hot water is required - his reason must be, because the knife absorbed forbidden taste (of a Treifah);

1. Even a knife used to slaughter a Kosher animal absorbs forbidden taste - the meat is forbidden as flesh of a living animal until the slaughter is completed!

(xv) Answer: It only absorbs when it gets warm, which is when the slaughter finishes - then, the meat is permitted!

(i) (Rav Yehudah): A butcher needs 3 knives: 1 to slaughter,

1 to cut meat, and 1 to cut Chelev (forbidden fat).

(ii) Question: The same knife may be used for meat and Chelev - he can cut the meat first!
(iii) Answer: This is a decree, lest he cut meat after cutting Chelev.
(iv) Question: Even if he has separate knives, he may come to use the wrong knife!
(v) Answer: Since he must have separate knives, he makes a sign to distinguish them, and will not confuse them.
(vi) (Rav Yehudah): A butcher needs 2 vessels of water: 1 to rinse meat, and 1 to rinse Chelev.
(vii) Question: The same vessel may be used for meat and Chelev - he can rinse the meat first!
(viii) Answer: This is a decree, lest he rinse meat after rinsing Chelev.
(ix) Question: Even if he has separate vessels, he may come to use the wrong one!
(x) Answer: Since he must have separate vessels, he makes a sign to distinguish them, and will not confuse them.
(xi) (Ameimar): A person should not press a flank of meat (the place where the Chelev of the kidney is) onto meat, for the Chelev will flow and be absorbed by the meat.
(xii) Question: This should be a concern even when the flank is level with meat!
(xiii) Answer: A membrane holds the Chelev in.