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1) MONEY OF ORPHANS

(a) (Rav Anan citing Shmuel): We may lend orphans' money on Ribis.
(b) Rav Nachman: We should not cause them to transgress, they will be punished for this!

1. What was the case (from which you inferred this)?

(c) Rav Anan: Mar Ukva's orphans had a cauldron by Shmuel; he rented it to others and also charged them if it decreased in weight.

1. To pay both is Ribis!

(d) Rejection (Rav Nachman): One may pay both even to adults - they pay for the loss of weight, and also rental because the remaining metal depreciates through usage.
(e) (Rabah bar Shila): One may invest orphans' money on condition that they can profit but cannot lose. (This is Avak Ribis, which is normally forbidden mid'Rabanan - by orphans, Chachamim permit it.)
(f) (Beraisa): One who invests money on condition that he can profit but cannot lose - he is evil; if he can lose but cannot profit - he is a Chasid; if he can profit or lose, or can neither profit nor lose, this as most people do.
(g) Rabah (to Rav Yosef): What do we do with orphans' money?
(h) Rav Yosef: We leave it in Beis Din and give them each Zuz when they need it.
(i) Rabah: The principal will dissipate!
(j) Rav Yosef: What do you suggest?
(k) Rabah: We find a man that owns pieces of gold; we buy pieces of gold with their money, and invest it by him, on condition that they can gain but cannot lose.

1. We cannot use a man that only owns specific things - perhaps they are a deposit, the owner will tell the sign and retrieve his deposit.

(l) Objection (Rav Ashi): If we do not find such a man, will we allow the orphans to consume the principal?!
(m) (Rav Ashi): Rather, we find a man whose property is uncontested; he must be trustworthy, knowledgeable of Torah law and acquiescent to Beis Din. We invest the money with him in Beis Din, on condition that they can gain but cannot lose.

2) TZON BARZEL

(a) (Mishnah): We may not accept Tzon Barzel from a Yisrael; since it is Ribis;

1. We may accept from a Nochri.

(b) We may borrow from or lend to a Nochri or Ger Toshav (a Nochri that accepted to guard his 7 Mitzvos) on Ribis;
(c) We may lend a Nochri's money according to his will, not according to the Yisrael's.
(d) (Gemara) Inference: (Since this is called Ribis,) we may infer that Tzon Barzel belongs to the receiver (he suffers any losses (Rashi - and the profits are shared; Tosfos - the investor is guaranteed a fixed revenue)).
(e) Contradiction (Mishnah): One who accepts Tzon Barzel from a Nochri, the law of the firstborn does not apply to the offspring , which proves that it belongs to the Nochri.
(f) Answer #1 (Abaye): If the investor bears any decrease in value of the goods or any Ones, it is considered his; if not, it is the receiver's.
(g) Objection #1 (Rava): If the investor bears any decrease in value or Ones, that is not Tzon Barzel!
(h) Objection #2 (Rava): The end of the Mishnah permits accepting Tzon Barzel from a Nochri - it should distinguish within the case of Yisrael, if the investor bears any decrease in value or Ones, it is permitted!
(i) Answer #2 (Rava): Rather, in both cases the investor does not bear decrease in value or Ones;

1. The law of firstborn does not apply because if the Yisrael does not return the estimated value, the Nochri will take the animal, and if he cannot, he will take the offspring;
2. Whenever a Nochri has rights in an animal, the law of firstborn does not apply.

(a) Question: "One who gets rich through Ribis, l'Chonen Dalim Yikbetzenu (the one who is gracious to the poor will take it)" - who is this?
(b) Answer (Rav): People such as Shevor Malka (the Persian king, who would take from Yisrael and give to the Nochrim, who are poor in Mitzvos).
(c) Version #1 (Rav Nachman): The verse teaches that even one who lends to a Nochri on Ribis will lose his money.
(d) Question (Rava): "La'Nochri Sashich";

1. Suggestion: We read this "Sashuch" (you will take Ribis from him).

(e) Answer: No, we read "Sashich" (you will pay Ribis to him).
(f) Question: Is that a Mitzvah?!
(g) Answer: No - it comes to exclude a Yisrael, to whom you may not pay Ribis.
(h) Question: "Ul'Achicha Lo Sashich" forbids that!
(i) Answer: "La'Nochri Sashich" adds a prohibition derived from a Mitzvas Ase.
(j) Question (Mishnah): We may borrow from or lend to a Nochri or Ger Toshav on Ribis.
(k) Answer #1 (R. Chiya brei d'Rav Huna): The Mishnah only permits one to take Ribis from a Nochri if he needs it to survive.
(l) Answer #2 (Ravina): The Mishnah only permits a Chacham;

1. Rav Nachman forbids lending a Nochri on Ribis lest one learn from his deeds - a Chacham would not learn from his deeds.