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Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Bava Metzia 8
1) TWO THAT PICK SOMETHING UP TOGETHER
(a) (Rami bar Chama): This teaches that one can pick up an
object to acquire for another - if not, it would be as if
each holds half, and the other half is on the ground (and
he does not acquire).
(b) Rejection (Rava): Really, one cannot pick up an object to
acquire for another - here, the reason is Migo that he
can acquire for himself, he can acquire for another.
1. Support: If Reuven told an agent 'Steal for me',
Reuven is exempt - but partners that steal are
liable;
(c) The reason is, Migo that he can acquire for himself, he
can acquire for another.
(d) (Rava): Since we say Migo - a deaf person and a healthy
person that lifted a found object - since the deaf person
acquires, also the healthy person.
1. We understand how the deaf person acquires -
(Chachamim enacted that he acquires what he finds),
and a healthy person lifts the other half for him;
2. Question: How does the healthy person acquire?
(e) Correction: Rather, the deaf person acquires, the healthy
person does not.
1. Question: How does this rely on Migo?
2. Answer: Migo that 2 deaf people that picked up a
found object together would acquire, a deaf person
also acquires when he picks it up with a healthy
person.
(f) Objection: Even if you will say that one can pick up an
object to acquire for another - that is only if he
intends for the other to acquire - but here, the healthy
person picks up for himself and does not acquire - does
he acquire for someone else?!
(g) Correction: Rather, since the healthy person does not
acquire, nor does the deaf person.
(h) Question: Why is this different than 2 deaf people that
pick up together, who acquire?
(i) Answer: That is an enactment to avoid quarrels - here,
the deaf person realizes that the healthy person does not
acquire, he does not expect that he should acquire.
(j) Question (Rav Acha brei d'Rav Ada): What was Rami bar
Chama's source (that 2 people who pick up something
together, they acquire)?
1. If from the first clause - 2 people holding a
garment - there, each claims that he picked it up
himself!
(k) Answer #1: Rather, since it says 'Reuven says, it is all
mine, Shimon says, it is all mine' - this is extra, to
teach that one can pick up an object to acquire for
another.
(l) Objection: But we established that 'I found it' speaks of
a found object, 'it is all mine' speaks of a bought
object!
(m) Answer #2: Rather, from the second clause - 'Reuven says,
it is all mine, Shimon says, half is mine';
1. This is extra, to teach that one can pick up an
object to acquire for another.
(n) Question: Perhaps that case refers to a bought object,
not a found object!
1. Question: If so, what is the Chidush?
2. Answer: One might have thought, by only claiming
half, Shimon is as one who returns a lost object,
and is exempt from swearing;
3. We hear, this is not so - he is scheming to avoid
swearing - he knows that if he claims the entire
object, he must swear, so he claims only half, to be
as one who returns a lost object.
(o) Answer #3: Rather, from the third clause: two people were
riding on an animal...
1. This is extra, to teach that one can pick up an
object to acquire for another.
(p) Objection: Perhaps this teaches that riding also
acquires!
(q) Answer #4: Rather, from the last clause: 'When they
admit, or have witnesses, they divide without swearing'.
1. Question: What is the case?
i. If by a bought object - this is obvious!
2. Answer: Rather, it is by a found object; it teaches
that one can pick up an object to acquire for
another.
3. Rava says, it teaches that Migo he can acquire for
himself, he can acquire for another.
2) ANOTHER EXPLANATION OF THE MISHNAH
(a) Answer #2 (to question 3:h (5B) - Abaye): The oath of the
Mishnah is because we suspect that Reuven lent Shimon
money a long time ago (and Shimon has forgotten this),
therefore he grabbed his garment to get repaid.
(b) Question: If so, we should let them divide it without
swearing!
(c) Correction: We suspect that Reuven is unsure whether
Shimon owes him from an old loan, therefore he grabbed
his garment.
(d) Question: If he will grab money when in doubt, he will
also swear when in doubt!
(e) Answer (Rav Sheshes brei d'Rav Idi): People refrain from
taking an oath which may be false, but not from doubtful
theft.
(f) Question: Why is this?
(g) Answer: One can return money, but one cannot correct
swearing falsely.
3) ACQUIRING AN ANIMAL
(a) (Mishnah): If both were riding...
(b) (Rav Yosef): Shmuel taught Rav Yehudah: riding and
leading, 1 acquires, 1 does not - Rav Yehudah didn't know
which acquires.
8b---------------------------------------8b
(c) Question: What is the case?
1. If 1 person rides or leads alone - would anyone say
that leading does not acquire?! Surely, he would
know that leading acquires!
(d) Answer: Rather, Shmuel spoke of leading while another is
riding. Rav Yehudah was unsure if riding is better, for
he holds the animal himself (Rashi; Tosfos - he holds the
halter);
1. Or - perhaps leading is better, for he causes the
animal to go.
(e) [Version #1 - Rav Yehudah: We may resolve this from a
Mishnah: One who is leading 2 different species pulling a
wagon, and one who sits in the wagon - both are lashed;
1. R. Meir exempts the one in the wagon.
2. Shmuel: The opinions must be switched - Chachamim
exempt the one in the wagon.
3. Rav Yehudah: we conclude that Shmuel holds that
riding alone does not acquire, all the more so
riding when another is leading.
(f) Question (Rav Yosef): How can you learn riding from
sitting in a wagon - one who sits does not hold the
Mosirah (halter)!
(g) Answer (Rav Yehudah): Rav and Shmuel both say, holding
the halter does not acquire a Hefker animal.]
(h) [Version #2: Rav Yosef resolved from the Mishnah as
above.
(i) Question (Abaye): How can you learn riding from sitting
in a wagon - one who sits does not hold the halter!
(j) Answer (Rav Yosef): Idi taught, holding the halter does
not acquire a Hefker animal.]
(k) (R. Chelbo): Taking the halter from the seller acquires,
but this does not acquire a Hefker animal.
(l) Question: What is the significance of the language
'Mosira'?
(m) Answer (Idi): As a person who Moser (hands over)
something to another person.
1. This applies to buying - but by Hefker, no one gives
it over!
(n) Question (Mishnah): If both were riding on an animal...
1. Question: Who is the Tana of the Mishnah?
i. Suggestion: R. Meir.
ii. Rejection: He holds that even sitting in the
wagon acquires!
2. Answer: Rather, it must be as Chachamim - we see,
riding acquires!
(o) Answer: The Mishnah is when he conducts it with his legs.
(p) Question: But the end of the Mishnah says that one was
riding and one was leading (if he conducts with his legs,
both lead it)!
(q) Answer: The Mishnah speaks of 2 kinds of leading.
1. One might have thought, riding is better, because he
both leads and holds the animal - we hear, this is
not so.
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