Bava Basra Chart #8 -

(Permission is granted to redistribute this material as long as the Kollel
header and the subscription info at the end are included.)

_________________________________________________________________
CHARTS FOR LEARNING THE DAILY DAF

brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Har Nof
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Email - daf@shemayisrael.co.il
_________________________________________________________________

Bava Basra Chart #8

Bava Basra Daf 145a

WHEN IS THE MONEY OF KIDUSHIN RETURNED
TO THE MAN OR TO HIS HEIRS(1)
		IS IT RETURNED?	WHAT IS THE REASON?
1)	HE DIED	No	She may claim, "Give me my husband"(2)
2)	SHE DIED	R. Nasan: Yes(3)	Kidushin Lav l'Tivu'in Nitnu
2)	SHE DIED	R. Yehudah ha'Nasi: No	Kidushin l'Tivu'in Nitnu
3)	HE CHANGED HIS MIND	No	He caused his own loss(4)
4)	SHE CHANGED HER MIND(5)	No(6)	Gezeirah(7)
5)	SHE WAS MARRIED TO A KOHEN AND WAS RAPED(8)	R. Meir: No	Kidushin l'Tivu'in Nitnu
		R. Yehudah: Yes(9)	Kidushin Lav l'Tivu'in Nitnu
		R. Yosi: Half	Safek whether Kidushin l'Tivu'in Nitnu or not

==========
FOOTNOTES:
==========
(1) This refers to *after* Kidushin/Erusin was performed, and *before* Nisu'in was performed.
(2) According to the Gemara's conclusion, no one argues with this.
(3) It seems from the Rashbam (DH u'Parchinan) that Rebbi Nasan agrees that in a place where it is the practice not to return the money of Kidushin, it is not returned, because he gave it to her with the custom of that place in mind. It is not clear, though, why, then, Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi does not agree, also, that we follow the custom of the place when the custom is to return the money. The PNEI SHLOMO answers that the Gemara later concludes that in a case in which the woman changed her mind (see row #4 in chart), although me'Ikar ha'Din the woman must return the money, the Rabanan enacted that she *not* return it, as explained below in footnote #7. We see from there that there is a good reason *not* to return the money of Kidushin even though me'Ikar ha'Din it should be returned. Therefore, Rebbi Nasan will agree that even though me'Ikar ha'Din the money should be returned, in a place where the custom is not to return it, we follow that custom, because there is an additional reason for not returning the money -- the Gezeirah that the Rabanan made in a case in which the woman changed her mind (even though the Gezeirah that they made in that case does not apply here, because one is permitted to marry the sister of one's deceased wife, nevertheless there is still an Isur to marry the daughter or mother of one's deceased wife, and therefore there is still good reason not to return the money (so that people not think that he was never married to this woman)).
(4) Rabeinu Gershom writes that the reason is because she can say, "Give me my husband..." (and since he is not giving himself to her as her husband, he is causing his own loss).
(5) It seems that the same would apply if she was Mezanah v'Mezid.
(6) This is the opinion of Ameimar, and the Halachah according to the Gemara's conclusion. Rav Papa argues and maintains that she must give the money back (because she caused the loss to herself; even though we rule that "Kidushin l'Tivu'in Nitnu," nevertheless she must give the money back according to Rav Papa because the Chachamim penalize her).
(7) If people see that she returns the money of Kidushin and that they are not married, they will assume that the Kidushin never took effect in the first place, and they will say that it is permitted for him to marry her sister (when, in truth, the Kidushin did take effect, but he gave her a Get Min ha'Erusin, and he is thus forbidden to marry her sister because of the Isur of "Achos Ishah").
(8) The Halachah is that an Eshes Kohen she'Ne'ensah may no longer live with her husband, the Kohen. Thus, it is not her fault that she may not remain married, nor is it his fault. Therefore, whether or not she must return the money of Kidushin depends on whether "Kidushin l'Tivu'in Nitnu" or not.
(9) Obviously, this Rebbi Yehudah is not the same Tana as Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi, because Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi holds the opposite (above, row #2). (The "Stam" Rebbi Yehudah is Rebbi Yehudah bar'Rebbi Ila'i)

Main
Bava Basra Page

List of Charts
and Graphics

Insights
to the Daf

Background
to the Daf

Review the Daf
Questions and Answers

Point by Point
Summary

For questions or sponsorship information, write to daf@shemayisrael.co.il