Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

1) SELLING SMALL ANIMALS TO NOCHRIM (cont.)

(a) Answer #2 (R. Elazar): Even though it is always forbidden to leave animals by them, selling is permitted (except in places where custom is not to sell).
(b) Question: What is the reason?
(c) Answer: A Nochrim would not sleep with his own animal, for this makes it sterile.
(d) Rav retracted and agreed with R. Elazar.

1. (Rav Tachlifa citing Rav): A Nochrim is concerned that his animal not become sterile.

(a) (Mishnah): In all places it is forbidden to sell large animals...
(b) Question: What is the reason?
(c) Answer #1: Granted, they are not suspected of bestiality, but they would work with the animal on Shabbos.
(d) Objection: Once the Nochri acquires the animal, it is his, the animal may work on Shabbos!
(e) Answer #2: This is a decree, lest one rent or lend an animal to a Nochri.
(f) Objection: Also one who rents or borrows an animal acquires it (for the agreed period of time)!
(g) Answer #3 (Rami brei d'R. Yeva): This is a decree, lest the Nochri will want to test the animal;

1. Sometimes he buys an animal just before Shabbos, and wants to see how the animal carries burdens; the animal will go when it hears its owner's voice, the owner transgresses Mechamer (making an animal work on Shabbos), he must bring a Chatas.

(h) Question (Rav Shisha brei d'Rav Idi): Rental does not acquire!

1. (Mishnah): Even where one may rent houses to Nochrim, he may not rent for the Nochri to dwell in, for the Nochri would bring in his idols (and a Yisrael may not have idols in his house).

i. If rental acquires, the idols are in the Nochri's house!

(i) Answer: Normally, rental acquires; idolatry is an exception, it is more stringent - "V'Lo Savi So'evah El Beisecha".
(j) Objection (R. Yitzchak brei d'Rav Mesharshiya): Rental does not acquire!

1. (Mishnah): If a Yisrael rents a cow from a Kohen, he may feed it vetch of Terumah; if a Kohen rents a cow from a Yisrael, even though the Kohen must feed it, he may not feed it vetch of Terumah.

i. If rental acquires, the Kohen owns the cow, he should be allowed to feed it vetch of Terumah!

2. Indeed, this shows that rental does not acquire.

(k) Conclusion: We may say that the decree was on account of rental, lending and testing the animal.
(l) Rav Ada permitted selling a donkey through a Safsira (someone who buys and sells animals):

1. We are not concerned lest the Nochri will want to test the animal, because, the animal does not recognize the Safsira's voice;
2. We are not concerned that the Safsira will rent or lend it out, because it is not his; also, he does not want defects of the animal to become known.

(a) Rav Huna sold a cow to a Nochri.
(b) Rav Chisda: Why is this permitted?
(c) Rav Huna: I may assume that he bought it to eat it immediately.

(d) Question: How do we know that we can be lenient to say this?
(e) Answer #1 (Mishnah - Beis Shamai): In Shemitah, a person may not sell a cow fit for plowing to someone suspected of working in Shemitah;

1. Beis Hillel permit this, he may assume that the buyer wants to eat it.

(f) Rejection (Rabah): That is different, because a person is not commanded that his animals rest in Shemitah;

1. A person is commanded that his animals rest on Shabbos, he may assume that the buyer wants to eat it.

(g) Objection #1 (Abaye): Even when a person is commanded, sometimes he may make favorable assumptions!

1. A person is commanded that his field rest in Shemitah;
2. (Mishnah - Beis Shamai): A person may not sell a plowed field in Shemitah to someone suspected of working in Shemitah;
3. Beis Hillel permit this, he may assume that the buyer wants to leave it fallow until the following year.

(h) Objection #2 (Rav Ashi): Even when a person is not commanded, sometimes he may not make favorable assumptions!

1. A person is not commanded that his vessels rest in Shemitah;
2. (Mishnah): A person may not sell the following vessels in Shemitah (Ran - to someone suspected of working in Shemitah): a plow and all vessels used with it, a yoke, a shovel; or a hoe (Tosfos - the latter two refer to parts of a plow).

(i) Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): Rather, whenever we can attribute the buyer's intention to something permitted, we may be lenient; if not, we must be stringent (people do not buy vessels a year before they need them);

1. It makes no difference whether or not the seller is commanded.

(j) Rabah sold a donkey to someone suspected of selling to Nochrim.
(k) Abaye: Why did you do this?
(l) Rabah: I sold to a Yisrael!
(m) Abaye: But he will sell to a Nochri!
(n) Rabah: He might, but also he might sell to a Yisrael; therefore, I may assume he will do so.
(o) Question (Beraisa): In a place where the custom is to sell small animals to Kusim, we may sell; in a place where the custom is not to sell, it is forbidden.

1. Question: What is the reason?

i. Suggestion: Kusim are suspected of bestiality.

2. Rejection #1 (Beraisa): We may not leave an animal with a Nochri innkeeper, even a male with a male or a female with a female (a man may come looking for her, not find her, and have relations with it instead), all the more so if the animal is the opposite gender;

i. We may not leave an animal with a Nochri shepherd; one may not be secluded with a Nochri (lest the Nochri kill him), we do not ask a Nochri to teach a child to read or a trade (lest he veer the child to heresy, or have relations with him);
ii. All of these are permitted regarding Kusim.

3. Rejection #2 (Beraisa): We may not sell to Nochrim or Kusim weapons nor handles of weapons, we do not sharpen their weapons, we do not sell to them shackles and chains (for holding prisoners).
4. Question: Why may we not sell to Kusim?

i. Suggestion: They are suspected of killing.
ii. Rejection: It is permitted to be secluded with them!

5. Answer (also to Question o:1): Rather, because they sell them to Nochrim.
6. Suggestion: Perhaps we are only concerned about Kusim, but we assume that a Yisrael (even though he is suspected) will repent and not sell to Nochrim.
7. Rejection: Rav Nachman taught, just as it is forbidden to sell to a Nochri, also to a Yisrael suspected of selling to Nochrim.

(p) Rabah ran three Parsa'os (some say - a Parsah in sand) to retract the sale, but was unable to catch the buyer.

(a) (Rav Dimi): Just as it is forbidden to sell to a Nochri, also to a Yisrael robber.

1. Question: What is the case?

i. If the robber is suspected of killing, this is obvious, he is like a Nochri!
ii. If he does not kill, why it is forbidden?

2. Answer: He does not (Ran - want to) kill, but if his victim contests him, he will fight him (Rashi - and keep the money; Ran - and kill him).

(b) (Beraisa): We do not sell shields to Nochrim; some say, it is permitted.
(c) Question: Why does the first opinion forbid it?
(d) Version #1 - Answer: Because it helps them survive.
(e) Question: If so, it should also be forbidden to sell grain to them!
(f) Answer (Rav): Indeed, if one can avoid selling grain (without causing animosity), he should not sell!
(g) Version #2 - Answer: When they run out of weapons, they use their shields to kill;

1. The lenient opinion says that when they run out of weapons, they flee. (End of Version #2)

(h) (Rav Nachman): The Halachah is, we may sell shields to them.