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1) A SIMAN THAT WILL NOT LAST

(a) Question (against Rabah - Mishnah): Baker's loaves (the finder keeps them).

1. Inference: Loaves of a common person must be announced!
2. People have particular ways of making loaves, this is a Siman. The Mishnah's law applies even in the public domain, where they will be trampled!

(b) Answer: They will not be trampled, because it is forbidden to trample on food.
(c) Question: But Nochrim also walk there, they will trample on them!
(d) Answer: Nochrim will not trample on them, they are concerned for witchcraft.
(e) Question: But animals and dogs walk there, they will trample on them!
(f) Answer: The Mishnah speaks of a place where animals and dogs are uncommon.
(g) Suggestion: Tana'im argue as Rabah and Rava argue.

1. (Mishnah - R. Yehudah): Anything unusual, one must announce - such as pottery in a ring of figs, or coins in a loaf.
2. Inference: The first holds that the finder keeps them!
3. (We are thinking that all agree that a Siman which comes by itself is a (valid) Siman , and it is permitted to trample on food.)
4. Version #1: Suggestion: The first holds that a Siman that will be trampled on is not a Siman , R. Yehudah holds that it is a Siman!

(h) Rejection (Rav Zvid citing Rava): If the first Tana held that a Siman that will be trampled on is not a Siman , and it is permitted to trample on food - he would not obligate one to announce loaves (not of a baker) in the public domain!

1. Rather, both Tana'im hold that a Siman that will be trampled on is a Siman , and it is permitted to trample on food;
2. They argue whether a Siman that comes by itself is a Siman - the first Tana holds that it is not, R. Yehudah holds that it is.

(i) Rabah explains, both Tana'im hold that a Siman that will be trampled on is not a Siman , and it is forbidden to trample on food;

1. They argue whether a Siman that comes by itself is a Siman (as above).

(j) Version #2: Both Tana'im hold that a Siman that comes by itself is a Siman , a Siman that will be trampled on is not a Siman;
(k) Suggestion: They argue whether it is permitted to trample on food - the first Tana permits, R. Yehudah forbids.
(l) Rejection (Rav Zvid citing Rava): If the first Tana held that a Siman that will be trampled on is not a Siman , and it is permitted to trample on food - he would not obligate one to announce loaves (not of a baker) in the public domain!

1. Rather, both Tana'im hold that a Siman that will be trampled on is a Siman , and it is permitted to trample on food;
2. They argue whether a Siman that comes by itself is a Siman.

(m) Rabah explains, both Tana'im hold that a Siman that will be trampled on is not a Siman , and it is forbidden to trample on food;

1. They argue whether a Siman that comes by itself is a Siman.

(n) (Rav Zvid): The general rule by lost objects: when the owner says 'Woe for my loss of money', that is despair.
(o) (Rav Zvid): The Halachah is, small bundles of sheaves in the public domain, the Siman will be trampled (so the finder keeps them);
(p) In a private domain - if it looks like they fell, the finder keeps them; if it looks like they were placed down, he takes and announces them.

1. Both of these are when they have no Siman - but if they have a Siman , whether in a private or public domain, whether they fell or were placed, he announces them.

2) OTHER TYPES OF SIMANIM

(a) (Mishnah): (The finder keeps) fish on a string.
(b) Version #1 (Rosh) Question: Why is this? The way he tied them should be a Siman!
(c) Answer: All hunters tie them this way.
(d) Version #2 (Ramban): Since we do not say that the way he tied them is a Siman , it must be, this is not considered a Siman!
(e) Rejection: The case is, they are tied as all hunters tie them. (end of Version #2)
(f) Question: We should say that the number of fish is a Siman!
(g) Answer: There are as many as hunters normally put on a string.
(h) Question: Is the number of found objects a Siman?
(i) Answer (Rav Sheshes - Beraisa): If he found vessels of silver or copper, or pieces of lead, or any metal vessels, he only returns them to one who gives a Siman or their weight.

1. Since weight is a Siman , also the measure or number.

(j) (Mishnah): (The finder keeps) pieces of meat.
(k) Question: Why is this? The weight should be a Siman!
(l) Answer: The weight is a standard weight that butchers sell.
(m) Question: Which limb it was should be a Siman - the ribs or thigh!

1. (Beraisa): If one finds pieces of fish or a bitten fish, he must announce it;
2. Barrels of wine, oil, grain, figs or olives - the finder keeps them;

(n) Answer: In the Beraisa, the pieces are cut in a special way, that is a Siman .

1. Rabah bar Rav Huna used to cut triangular pieces of meat.
2. Support: Presumably, the pieces of fish are similar to a bitten fish (taught with it), in which the bite is a Siman.

(a) (Beraisa): Barrels of wine, oil, grain, figs or olives - the finder keeps them.
(b) Contradiction (Mishnah): Barrels of wine or oil - the finder must announce them.
(c) Answer (R. Zeira): The Mishnah speaks of barrels that were (opened and re)sealed - this is a Siman.
(d) Question: If the Beraisa speaks of open barrels, snakes can drink from it - he willingly forfeits them!
(e) Answer #1 (R. Hoshiya): They are covered, but not plastered closed (this is not a Siman).
(f) Answer #2 (Abaye): Also in the Beraisa they are resealed;

1. The Mishnah is before the season to sell wine came - it is rare to reseal a barrel, it is a Siman;
2. The Beraisa is after the season came, it is common to reseal barrels, it is not a Siman.
3. Rav Yakov bar Aba found a resealed barrel after the season came - Abaye ruled that he may keep it.

(g) Question (Rav Bivi): Is the place (where it was left) a Siman?
(h) Answer (Rav Nachman - Beraisa): Barrels of wine, oil, grain, figs or olives - the finder keeps them;

1. If place was a Siman , he should announce where they were found!

(i) Rejection (Rav Zvid): The case is, it was left at the dock where ships unload.

1. Version #1 - Question (Rav Mari): Why isn't it a Siman that he lost it at the docks?
2. Answer (Rav Mari): Just as he forgot a barrel there, others also forgot barrels.
3. Version #2 - Question (Rav Mari): Why isn't the place a Siman? 4. Answer (Rav Mari): Just as he forgot a barrel there, others also forgot barrels.

(j) Reuven found pitch by the olive-presses; Rav ruled that he may keep it. Rav saw that Reuven was hesitant; he told him to split it with Rav's son Chiya.
(k) Suggestion: This shows that Rav holds that place is not a Siman!
(l) Rejection (R. Aba): No - he permitted it because the owner surely despaired - nettles were growing on it.

(a) (Mishnah): R. Shimon ben Elazar says, one need not announce Anpurya vessels.
(b) Question: What is Anpurya?
(c) Answer (Rav Yehudah): New vessels that one does not yet recognize well.
(d) Question: What is the case?

1. If he has a Siman - even if one does not yet recognize them, they must be returned!
2. If he has no Siman - even if one recognizes them, they need not be announced!

(e) Answer: Really, he has no Siman ;

1. If one does not yet recognize them, we are not concerned to announce it in case a Chacham recognizes it.